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Author Topic: KJFK - Confusion and Reason  (Read 10338 times)
cptbrw
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« on: December 21, 2010, 09:44:38 PM »

Interesting exchange this evening between JFK Tower and a JetBlue flight.  The pilot had a little trouble with the taxi instructions after landing and the controller patiently walked him through it.  A short time later the pilot returned to the tower frequency to apologize for his confusion at which time the tower controller offered his view as to the reason for the confusion.  

Just a nice brief exchange between a couple of professionals!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:40:13 AM by cptbrw » Logged
flyflyfly
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 02:50:58 PM »

Excellent!
Great to hear how they resolve the issue without any sign of annoyance on either side. Very professional indeed...
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alltheway
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 05:06:00 PM »

 cheesy Stories usually continue afterwards by phone with something like "What the H**ll where you thinking, taxiing straight into the city?" 

But I doubt that....  nice clip....
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cessna157
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 09:28:15 AM »

Wow, as a flight crew member, I've never thought of it that way.  That's an incredible way to describe it.  Huge kudos to Alan Alda's line of thinking.  I may just take that clip to our CRM group and see if they want to share it with the airline in recurrent ground.
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 10:08:52 AM »

Wow, as a flight crew member, I've never thought of it that way.  That's an incredible way to describe it.  Huge kudos to Alan Alda's line of thinking.  I may just take that clip to our CRM group and see if they want to share it with the airline in recurrent ground.

" Alan Alda "  is a great controller and a good person. He has loads of knowledge and he knows how to put it out there in a way everyone can understand. He does talk too much sometimes tho...
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alltheway
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 01:12:09 PM »

What the controller means is a natural happening, I had the same with a wasp nest near my backdoor, when I stood in front of their nest the wasps just flew blindly up against me , backed up and flew around without stinging me!  Going blindly as I refer to it........


Now I don't want to compare Jetblue pilots with wasps, though more with the Borg where resistance is futile..... wink
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:17:41 PM by alltheway » Logged
ed3004
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »

His wife accuses him of not listening. hahaha We may need to adopt readbacks and other  ATC-like communication for speaking with the wife since that seems to work better. "...Bathroom occupied, line up and wait, Echo Delta."..lower toilet seat, Echo Delta"
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silvercreek
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM »

That's one place that can't afford very many miss-understandings.
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A_J_D_C
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 12:57:53 PM »

ohhhhhhh.....   grin grin
That sounds alot like the controller from my all time fav KJFK clip found here and on utube "a tough day at JFK Tower"  awsome controller, love listening to him
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777-200LR
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 07:13:08 AM »

That's one place that can't afford very many miss-understandings.

This was much ado about nothing.  Whether the JBU crew held short of 4L on G or on Y short of G, it's  a distinction without a difference as they were never going to cross an active runway (4L).   

The reason the NFP got it wrong is because 99 out of 100 times when landing on 4R and exiting onto FA, the ground taxi directions are to "cross 4L on <x> and contact ground on the other side."   But since this crew wasn't sure what their entry point was going to be at the International Terminal #4 (either H or G), he gave the 'usual' readback by rote.

 
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bob_stl
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 10:16:30 AM »

This was much ado about nothing.  Whether the JBU crew held short of 4L on G or on Y short of G, it's  a distinction without a difference as they were never going to cross an active runway (4L).   

Soooo.... A pilot who may not know his position, and/or crossing a taxiway while someone else may have been cleared on G to another point past Y is much ado about nothing? If there's a controller who thinks it's a distinction without a difference, they should join the unemployed.

I don't think that silvercreek meant you can't afford misunderstandings at 4L on G or on Y at G specifically. He meant misunderstandings of ground positions and where you're instructed to hold short especially considering how busy JFK is.
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777-200LR
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 08:46:44 AM »

This was much ado about nothing.  Whether the JBU crew held short of 4L on G or on Y short of G, it's  a distinction without a difference as they were never going to cross an active runway (4L).   

Soooo.... A pilot who may not know his position, and/or crossing a taxiway while someone else may have been cleared on G to another point past Y is much ado about nothing? If there's a controller who thinks it's a distinction without a difference, they should join the unemployed.

Nobody else would be cleared to G or F on the other side of runway 4L when JFK is landing 4R. 
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bob_stl
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 01:02:12 PM »

Nobody else would be cleared to G or F on the other side of runway 4L when JFK is landing 4R. 

Maybe someone was cleared from Z to G to hold short of 4L. Maybe it was an airport work vehicle. What it may have been doesn't matter. The point is, that the controller asked him to hold short of G for a reason. You don't know what that was, so you can't claim that it was much ado about nothing. And the controller has to make sure that he doesn't have disoriented pilot.

Far and away most accidents occur on the ground and many accidents start out as something unrelated that causes a distraction. You don't want a small misunderstanding to snowball into a tragedy.

I suppose the original post was one to point out mutual consideration and respect between the controller and pilot, but I still agree with silvercreek's assessment.
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777-200LR
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 04:28:26 AM »

This was much ado about nothing.  Whether the JBU crew held short of 4L on G or on Y short of G, it's  a distinction without a difference as they were never going to cross an active runway (4L).   

Soooo.... A pilot who may not know his position, and/or crossing a taxiway while someone else may have been cleared on G to another point past Y is much ado about nothing? If there's a controller who thinks it's a distinction without a difference, they should join the unemployed.

Nobody else would be cleared to G or F on the other side of runway 4L when JFK is landing 4R. 
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