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Author Topic: United 162 Aborts Takeoff!! KLAX 12-20-09  (Read 6054 times)
speedotann
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« on: December 20, 2009, 03:43:35 PM »

I caught this this morning. United 162 (B757-200) aborts takeoff. I do not know why but he did request to go back to the gate. I have another post with aa254 going around, also a 757-200, but is called heavy. I keep hearing different reasons why. Does anyone know the true reason. I finally figured out this audacity thing. Now its only a little over a minute. Thanks

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ATC- N272** expedite departure Please.

ME- I am peddling as fast as I can!!
joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 07:53:26 PM »

This is an age old debate on the unique airplane that is the B757...Wake turbulence separation plays a part in this too...

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/aa254-heavy-is-going-around-at-1150-klax-1130!

To quote pilot3303 in the thread on aa254:

"...the distinction is MGTOW (Max Gross Take-Off Weight), not the actual weight of the aircraft at any given moment. If the plane CAN weigh more than 255k then it's "heavy," if it can not, then it is not called "heavy.""

And skyocus:

"It boils down to this. All 753's are heavies. Some 752's are heavies due to extra fuel tanks and being rated for a higher MTOW then most 752's. Even the 752's that are not heavies have special separation rules that apply to them on final, but it's not as simple as treating them as heavies."

And OO:

"We now have to treat all 757 200 series as heavies. But if you ask the pilot and they state that they are not a heavy then you can treat them as a regular 757."


Nice clip by the way!  grin
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 08:01:45 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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rekno13
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 08:20:36 PM »

Thanks for the post!

I think what you can take from the B757 heavy discussion, the true reason if you will, is that at some point pilots felt turbulence flying behind them, and the FAA decided it was best to designate them as heavies to keep everyone safer. That's what I pretty much concluded from when I first heard ATC asking pilots if they were heavies and the discussions I followed on this forum.
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kea001
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 09:48:08 AM »



1. Try cutting out the stuff that doesn't matter.
2. Render at 16kbs, not 64kbs.

Here is the file I created.

72.5 kb, not 650kb.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 09:58:20 AM by kea001 » Logged
speedotann
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 11:45:51 AM »

Thanks Guys... I guess it is better than 30 min though...  I will try the 16.
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Cessna 152

ATC- N272** expedite departure Please.

ME- I am peddling as fast as I can!!
kea001
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 12:59:02 PM »

Thanks Guys... I guess it is better than 30 min though...  I will try the 16.


It's also helpful to rate a clip from 1 to 10 as far as how well it tells a story before you start editing.
If it falls below 5, consider not even doing it.  I would have rated this about 1 1/2.  But that's my opinion.
It's all relative to how valuable you the editor and the prospective listener value their time.

As you become more adept at sourcing and editing clips, you will find that it can take up a good chunk of your Saturday morning or late evening.

From my limited experience, I would say once or twice a year a clip goes viral, usually after a major incident that has global coverage. In the past year, the Buffalo crash and the Amsterdam crash come to mind.





"you have meddled with the primal forces of nature....and you will atone!"


But apart from that, try to look at the exercise as satisfying your own curiosity and hopefully others will appreciate it as well. The clip would have been so much better if you had found the answer as to why the takeoff was aborted.







« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 01:12:43 PM by kea001 » Logged
djmodifyd
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 07:05:58 PM »

This is an age old debate on the unique airplane that is the B757...Wake turbulence separation plays a part in this too...

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/aa254-heavy-is-going-around-at-1150-klax-1130!

To quote pilot3303 in the thread on aa254:

"...the distinction is MGTOW (Max Gross Take-Off Weight), not the actual weight of the aircraft at any given moment. If the plane CAN weigh more than 255k then it's "heavy," if it can not, then it is not called "heavy.""

And skyocus:

"It boils down to this. All 753's are heavies. Some 752's are heavies due to extra fuel tanks and being rated for a higher MTOW then most 752's. Even the 752's that are not heavies have special separation rules that apply to them on final, but it's not as simple as treating them as heavies."

And OO:

"We now have to treat all 757 200 series as heavies. But if you ask the pilot and they state that they are not a heavy then you can treat them as a regular 757."


Nice clip by the way!  grin

And skyocus:

"It boils down to this. All 753's are heavies. Some 752's are heavies due to extra fuel tanks and being rated for a higher MTOW then most 752's. Even the 752's that are not heavies have special separation rules that apply to them on final, but it's not as simple as treating them as heavies."


this is the only correct statement out of all of the ones you quoted
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 07:01:04 AM »

Really?

"To quote pilot3303 in the thread on aa254:

...the distinction is MGTOW (Max Gross Take-Off Weight), not the actual weight of the aircraft at any given moment. If the plane CAN weigh more than 255k then it's "heavy," if it can not, then it is not called "heavy.""


From appendix A of USDOT FAA Order 7110.65R

http://www.borzov.net/Pilot/ATC.pdf

"AIRCRAFT WEIGHT CLASSES
a. Heavy. Aircraft capable of takeoff weights of
more than 255,000 pounds whether or not they are
operating at this weight during a particular phase of
flight.

b. Large. Aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds,
maximum certificated takeoff weight, up to
255,000 pounds.
c. Small. Aircraft of 41,000 pounds or less
maximum certificated takeoff weight."


Sounds like pilot3303 was dead on to me...
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speedotann
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 11:08:45 AM »

Hey guys I got a recording last night... Check it out.. AA192 gets asked if they are a heavy (757).
Thanks
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 02:29:34 PM by speedotann » Logged

Cessna 152

ATC- N272** expedite departure Please.

ME- I am peddling as fast as I can!!
Robert Larson
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 04:59:16 PM »

i thought this was interesting. I'd never heard an abort before, so now I know how to do it right. I'd rate it at least a 3.4.  smiley
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