Author Topic: US Airways 1549 Audio.  (Read 93245 times)

Offline Infil85

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2009, 10:14:45 AM »


Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com

I just want to make it clear that those people in the life rafts are most likely not first class. First class was evacuated first for one thing. Second thing, I know for a fact that my grandfather, who was in first class and is 69, swam out to the wing of the aircraft.

kea001

  • Guest
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2009, 11:02:38 AM »
"First class was evacuated first for one thing. "

Gotcha!  :evil:

« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 08:50:34 PM by kea001 »

Offline Simcoe2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2009, 01:49:42 PM »
"First class was evacuated first for one thing. "

Gotcha!  :evil:



All were evacuated in unison.  However, 1st class passenger Mark Hood's statement to the media of being second last to disembark is false.  As is his radio interview statement of seeing a blur outside the window. Hood, a Marine, was incidentally unable to distinguish starboard from port and had to be eventually corrected by the interviewer. Hood was also audibly nervous, uncertain and tense, when should've been elated to be alive and happily chatting without recourse or restraint.  He was rattling off claims that went against his moral character; i.e., that which did not happen.   

1549 is an excellent case study in what not to say and do from an ATC perspective, not to mention horrifically bad flying if really hit birds which is a crock.  The La Guardia Departure TRACON controller couldn't even get the callsign right, repeatedly addressing 1549 as "1529."  Oopsy. This aircraft wasn't going to make La Guardia, JFK, Teterboro or anywhere.  The only things an ATC can do in this situation is gather critical data from the crew, number of souls onboard, course direction, landings intentions and instantly relay this info to TRACON data to liason with the respective rescue units.  It's out of Departure's control.  The aircraft is coming down and about the only pertinent info Departure can relay to the crew is wind and verification of Ditch Switch engagement, which 1549 never engaged and why partially sank nor Departure advise.  The controller botched every step. 

Every crew, worth any ounce of aviating integrity, that takes off from La Guardia, has to have multiple emergency landing scenarios down cold before firewalling the throttles, so that there is no thinking involved should anything go wrong after V1, and these include unfortunate river rafting down the Hudson and prepping the aircraft for this very predicament.  The crew flubbed everything but the great water landing.  Sullenberger did not have any emergency landing scenario down at takeoff.  He had to ask La Guardia for possible alternate solutions before weighing the odds in midair, amid desperate futile effort to restart the engines, before solemnly realizing upon reflection that the Hudson was the only out. 

The only worthy representatives of Cactus 1549 at the Superbowl should've been the flight attendants and ferry boat crews.  Sullenberger and co-pilot should've been place kicked through the uprights for aviating conduct unbecoming of even Ernest P. Worrel in a body cast.         


Offline KSYR-pjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2009, 02:10:47 PM »
The only worthy representatives of Cactus 1549 at the Superbowl should've been the flight attendants and ferry boat crews.  Sullenberger and co-pilot should've been place kicked through the uprights for aviating conduct unbecoming of even Ernest P. Worrel in a body cast.

Recall this famous quote, Simcoe2?

Quote
I'm not ATP, air traffic or associated with any segment of the airline industry, so any comment I say should not be construed as credible. 

That was taken from your first post here, which from how it reads was the only one that made any sense.

Offline mhawke

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2009, 09:58:00 AM »




All were evacuated in unison.  However, 1st class passenger Mark Hood's statement to the media of being second last to disembark is false.  As is his radio interview statement of seeing a blur outside the window. Hood, a Marine, was incidentally unable to distinguish starboard from port and had to be eventually corrected by the interviewer. Hood was also audibly nervous, uncertain and tense, when should've been elated to be alive and happily chatting without recourse or restraint.  He was rattling off claims that went against his moral character; i.e., that which did not happen.   

[/quote]

Not sure how the passenger being a Marine has anything to do with him being able to distinguish starboard from port.  Many a Marine has spent a career without having enough time onboard a ship to gain that instinctive awareness of which side of the ship is red and which side is green.

As for him being uncertain and tense, I assume you have no experience in truely life threatning situations.  It is not uncommon to either have poor recollection after the fact because instinct takes over and you react, or because your mind simply does not want to deal with what has happened.  I have experienced both on board submarines after spening many years working and living on them.

I am also curious how you know that he made claims of things which did not happen?  Were you on board the plane?  Do you know what happened from his perspective?  Eyewitness accounts must always be understood to have happened from a persons perspective which can change everything.  For example, he may very well have thought he was the second to last person to embark because there was only person behind him at the door he left through.  Doesn't make him a liar, doesn't mean he was telling something that didn't happen, it just means that is what happened from his perspective, which is the only way he can tell the story.

Offline athaker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2009, 10:43:39 AM »
I think it may be time to stop humoring this guy.  Times are stressful enough...  8-)

Offline cessna157

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • facebook
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2009, 09:23:17 PM »
Mhawke, you'll have more luck discussing the situation with your desk drawer.  Simcoe's responses will just make your head hurt

Offline Simcoe2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2009, 02:51:04 PM »
The only worthy representatives of Cactus 1549 at the Superbowl should've been the flight attendants and ferry boat crews.  Sullenberger and co-pilot should've been place kicked through the uprights for aviating conduct unbecoming of even Ernest P. Worrel in a body cast.

Recall this famous quote, Simcoe2?

Quote
I'm not ATP, air traffic or associated with any segment of the airline industry, so any comment I say should not be construed as credible. 

That was taken from your first post here, which from how it reads was the only one that made any sense.



Peter, there's nothing famous to it. It's a standard duty bound disclaimer to alert any reader that, unlike yourself, I'm not claiming to be something I'm not. And they were my words. Not yours.

The irony is that people like you, who claim or tacitly insinuate being expert on all matters of aviation, haven't made any effort to explain how flying into a flock of birds from afar qualifies for the mantle of "Hero"?

Are you so desperate for heroes in your website administrative duties that you're willing to extol the title of heroism to a crew that nearly killed, if did hit birds, everyone onboard from near unprecedented, indefendible negligence with plenty of opportunity to avoid?
 
If you ever care to, then maybe you might also explain how these very engines that compressor stalled over Newark three days before with the cause never addressed by full replacement of brand new powerplants, the only repair option by manufacturer and FAA directive, somehow mended themselves without human intervention and recuperated to 100% airworthiness status in the ensuing 72 hours?   

Offline KSYR-pjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2009, 02:55:56 PM »
Are you so desperate for heroes in your website administrative duties ...

LOL.  You think I am the website administrator here?   Yet another mistaken assumption on your part. 

You admitted to not having any experience in anything aviation.  Thus, your comments, as per your own warning, are not credible.  I am just honoring your wishes.

Offline dave

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4597
    • LiveATC.net
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2009, 02:58:13 PM »
This thread is about to be locked if this goes on any further.

Offline Simcoe2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2009, 05:42:38 PM »




All were evacuated in unison.  However, 1st class passenger Mark Hood's statement to the media of being second last to disembark is false.  As is his radio interview statement of seeing a blur outside the window. Hood, a Marine, was incidentally unable to distinguish starboard from port and had to be eventually corrected by the interviewer. Hood was also audibly nervous, uncertain and tense, when should've been elated to be alive and happily chatting without recourse or restraint.  He was rattling off claims that went against his moral character; i.e., that which did not happen.   


Not sure how the passenger being a Marine has anything to do with him being able to distinguish starboard from port.  Many a Marine has spent a career without having enough time onboard a ship to gain that instinctive awareness of which side of the ship is red and which side is green.

As for him being uncertain and tense, I assume you have no experience in truely life threatning situations.  It is not uncommon to either have poor recollection after the fact because instinct takes over and you react, or because your mind simply does not want to deal with what has happened.  I have experienced both on board submarines after spening many years working and living on them.

I am also curious how you know that he made claims of things which did not happen?  Were you on board the plane?  Do you know what happened from his perspective?  Eyewitness accounts must always be understood to have happened from a persons perspective which can change everything.  For example, he may very well have thought he was the second to last person to embark because there was only person behind him at the door he left through.  Doesn't make him a liar, doesn't mean he was telling something that didn't happen, it just means that is what happened from his perspective, which is the only way he can tell the story.
[/quote]


If you know much about "Marines" you'll know that they're amphibious infantry.  And if a person who calls themself a Marine doesn't know port from starboard, then they're not a Marine.  They'd never make it through the first week of School of Infantry. Can't go over the left or right side of a vessel if don't know which side is which. And to argue that some Marines spend their entire career not knowing left from right is an unbelieveable insult to the Marines. 

There is no instinct crammed in an airline seat.  That's a bit like saying Homo sapiens has flown for so many millenia that flying is anthropologically hereditary. It isn't. In fact, the more people fly, the more they tend to resent and fear it. If any instinct exists, it's moving at herd speed when the attendants start shouting to vacate.   

Eyewitnesses are the most unreliable possible type of witness.  This paradox has been proven over and over and over. People believe what they 'want' to believe; not what is.  The vast majority of humans run like no tomorrow from real or perceived danger. Never even stopping to look back and examine until satisfied of reaching real or perceived safety. After the danger subsides the fantastic personal stories of altruistic heroism emerge by people who want to be seen as heroic but in fact behaved completely human, running scared until the danger subsided. 

When one passenger claims to have seen a "blur" outside the 1st class window and to have heard a series of thuds, while everyone else surveyed said "loud bang" or "bang" then "silence," the statistical differential ought to be self explanatory. 

How does a radio station devote an entire piece to one passenger on a 100% confidential passenger manifest and acquire their cell phone number?  The guy called in. The station did not go looking for him.  He called them.  Why?  Because he wanted people from his neck of the woods to know that he was on that flight. That's he's not a nobody. Is different. Special, and for people from his neck of the woods to view him as special. That and an opportunity to get in good with his wife.     

When that plane came to a noticeable stop the attendants, having already advised all onboard, commanded all passengers to exit the aircraft without delay. You would be stunned what a 125lb female flight attendant can do to a 200lb boy that fails to comply.  Mark Hood was in that frigid water for minimum 7 minutes,  probably more like 10 since on the right wing.  Which means he was one of the first to exit. And exited closer to the front of the 1st class throng than those behind, nowhere close to the pilot in command, Sullenberger.       


Offline Simcoe2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: US Airways 1549 Audio.
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2009, 10:33:00 AM »
Are you so desperate for heroes in your website administrative duties ...

LOL.  You think I am the website administrator here?   Yet another mistaken assumption on your part. 

You admitted to not having any experience in anything aviation.  Thus, your comments, as per your own warning, are not credible.  I am just honoring your wishes.

Negative.  You're the CNYAviation.com website administrator.  The facts back my comments and, as already advised by fair disclaimer, for any interested reader to consult the facts on record and decide themselves.  Like the following: 

In 2007, a string of A321 worldwide operators reported compressor stalls by “highly deteriorated HPCs” in their GE 56-5B turbofans to GE Aviation (GEA), FAA and EASA. http://tinyurl.com/dayvv4 The engines on Cactus 1549. 

As the directive explains, GEA first reacted to the stall reports by devising engine software 5QB update to reduce the occurrence and severity of HPC deterioration on GE-powered A321s.  Then the stall incidents, after the 5QB update, reoccurred. 5QB was a dud.  So GEA issued a maintenance directive to all 56-5B-powered operators to ground test their units and replace any that produced EGT over 80 Celsius with a brand new 56-5B.  This means GEA wasn’t able to find a workable fix besides full replacement of a used deteriorated random ticking time bomb with a new random bomb should EGT (safely parked on the ground with no such luxury in midair) exceed 80C. Nothing novel here, once a design is flawed it’s next to impossible to reengineer once in production. Then an Air France A321 with GE 56-5Bs compressor stalled out of Tunis in December and the European Aviation Safety Agency and GEA released an “Emergency Airworthiness Directive” (2008-0227-E) on Dec. 23, 2008.  The original GEA directive, essentially, now EASA stamped with “Emergency” affixed. 

So that there is no confusion, the GE 56-5B high pressure compressor was rendered “Emergency” status by its designer/manufacturer.

The same Cactus 1549 aircraft with different crew double compressor stalled over Newark climbing up to cruise in Jan. 2009 three days prior to the Hudson regatta. 1549’s HPCs that stalled over the Bronx were the same units that stalled over Newark.  USAir didn’t replace these units, the only option by GEA’s terse emergency directive, both obviously and unmistakably deteriorated contrary to NTSB’s story of dud temperature sensor (Sorry, NTSB, a bum sensor doesn’t cause loud BANG with cabin electrical loss), with brand new 56-5Bs in the 72 hour layover. USAir put the plane and deteriorated HPCs back in service as is. Three days later 1549 took off from La Guardia, both engines stalled at 2800’ and the pilot glided down into the Hudson, and out waddled the bird story.   

The GE 56-5B line and Cactus 1549’s service record 100% undermine the bird story. Leaving only the matter of deconstructing the extensively edited audio tapes plus transcripts,  NTSB clown routine and media disinformation to explain how the fleece job was pulled off.   

GE Aviation sequestered 1549’s engines as soon as detached and/or salvaged and shipped them back to its Ohio headquarters, concealing the culprit HPCs. Not long after, the alleged story of “Branta Canadensis” “feathers” recovered from 1549’s engines emerged, as if any feather would loiter after a 140-150nm extended rinse cycle in the Hudson already riddled with innumerable detached waterfowl feathers.  USAir sequestered the two pilots in seclusion and imposed a media blackout. Then the spin doctors set to work transforming crew error which, if true that hit birds, would be monumental neglect, into “Hero pilot,” snubbing the flight attendants and ferry boat crews to focus on and idolize P-in-C, Chesley Sullenberger.  Then the spin went from the sublime to the ridiculous with a toweled off Chesley taking a bow to great applause at the Superbowl. No doubt each Superbowl fan and viewer personally received and read the GEA/EASA emergency directive, fully cognizant of the 56-5B disastrous service record, 1549’s double compressor stall over Newark, and magically rejuvenated temperature sensor which just happens to be backed up to redundancy and would never shutdown the engine even if all failed. 

Mark Hood’s story of penultimate to disembark the aircraft next to Chesley, even offering the P-in-C “After you, Sir!” is utterly impractical for several reasons:   

First: would mean the entire attendant staff, not just 1st class, and co-pilot were derelict negligent in leaving a passenger behind.  They were not. Evacuation was letter perfect except for some trying to grab their carryon.   

Second: Hood was outside that aircraft, drenched as all were in ankle- to shin-high frigid Hudson water or soaked life raft awaiting ferry rescue, for too long to be anywhere close in the timeline of second last. 

Third: No one in 1st class, including seat mate or Sullenberger, has corroborated his story. 

Many passengers were immediately interviewed by local media right after docking, still soaking wet, each ecstatic to be alive. Mark Hood, a few days later, was audibly aloof, tense, uncertain and nervous on a radio show that he contacted. Interesting.     

What would be eating at Hood? He has all the reason in the world to be happy, relieved, confident, loquacious, except wasn’t. Wound tight as a drum and taciturn at the onset and only loosened by the interviewer’s calming tactics.   

People fly 1st class, paying big bucks, to sleep in a quiet, dark cabin in a big comfortable seat with most on their way to a business meeting. Even most in coach(cattle) are trying to sleep as also on the way to a meeting. Even in cattle few windows are ever open during day flight in clear visibility. Attendants will even order passengers and sometimes boldly reach over to shut cattle blinds on even north side seats on a westbound flight so passengers can rest in reasonable darkness.

Hood will have it believed that his left side 1st class window blind, facing the mid-day western sun on a 360 heading, beating in on every big buck paying 1st class passenger trying to sleep, was fully open at 2800’ just in time to see a “blur” outside the window fly past at 200kt, then heard thuds.

Where are the pockmarks on the fuselage and leading edges supporting that claim?  There aren’t any. 1549 floating down the Hudson, as the pictures show, was pristine. 

Even if the window really were open, somehow escaping the vigilant notice and wrath of all other 1st class passengers paying big bucks to sleep with blaring sun in their face a la Hood looked after by stickler attendants, is only one step in a much bigger battle. Even if one were intently staring right out the window not blinking, all they’d see, if lucky, would be an instant fleeting unidentifiable shadow silhouetted by the blinding western sun. Hood, chatting at the time with seat mate to his right (his words) in big, wide seats that force one to turn their head right to converse, somehow able to stare right at the scorching western sun without  squinting. 

There’s a word for this and it can’t be printed here. Hood didn’t see anything out that window even if open, didn’t hear any thuds, and no way in hell was the second last off. He was aloof and nervous because was reeling off howling impossibilities knowing these to be impossible, adding Marine for credible austerity, yet repeatedly confusing port for starboard, suggestive perhaps of not a true Marine. Could be, but if were, would be most unique.   

While only speculation, Hood’s performance, while blundering, is a great opportunity to disseminate and hype the bird story for USAir and GEA’s continued customer relations benefit by pointing the blame at a next to impossible detectible blur, translating into Canada Geese, which NY TRACON and EGF4718 never saw nor anyone onboard either or heard, and the flight crew placed on the hero pedestal for conduct that would get them fired or sternly reprimanded by even Azerbaijan [Disast]Air.

Analysis of audio tape and transcription inconsistencies to follow.