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Author Topic: We don't need any Air Traffic Controllers!  (Read 19540 times)
fholbert
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« on: January 07, 2008, 09:34:43 PM »











Frank
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Frank Holbert
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2008, 10:00:06 PM »

Hmm.... while this pictorial is indeed a vivid example of an "uncontrolled airport," there are also many examples of midair collisions at controlled airports, too, that contradict this subject-implied premise (if it is not in jest). 

The recent midair at Farmingdale, NY (clip posted in the audio section of this site) that fortunately resulted in no fatalities, as well as one at Caldwell, NJ, and one out in southern California that both resulted in at least four deaths come immediately to mind.

Nonetheless, these are incredible shots.  Do you know if they were taken from a still camera or a video camera and then screen-captured?   The witness was really on the ball here.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
fholbert
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2008, 10:23:11 PM »

Nonetheless, these are incredible shots.  Do you know if they were taken from a still camera or a video camera and then screen-captured?   The witness was really on the ball here.

No one knows who took them?

**********************************************************************************   Report created 1/7/2008   Record 5                                       ********************************************************************************** IDENTIFICATION  Regis#: 8037W        Make/Model: PA28      Description: PA-28 CHEROKEE, ARROW, WARRIOR, ACHER, D  Date: 01/01/2008     Time: 2215   Event Type: Accident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: Y    Missing: N  Damage: Minor LOCATION  City: NAPA   State: CA   Country: US DESCRIPTION  N8037W, A PIPER PA 28-180 ON FINAL APPROACH, STRUCK ANOTHER AIRCRAFT,   N15EX, A GLASTAR, BOTH AIRCRAFT LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, NO INJURIES   REPORTED, N8037W SUSTAINED MINOR DAMAGE, N15EX SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL   DAMAGE, SONOMA VALLEYAIRPORT, NAPA, CA INJURY DATA      Total Fatal:   0                 # Crew:   1     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:                     # Pass:   0     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:                     # Grnd:         Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:     WEATHER: APC 09015G20KT 10SM CLR 14/01 A3021 OTHER DATA  Activity: Unknown      Phase: Approach      Operation: OTHER    FAA FSDO: SACRAMENTO, CA  (WP25)                Entry date: 01/02/2008 

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Frank Holbert
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Panop
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 11:04:20 AM »

Maybe not but I bet I know what the pile of brown stuff near the runway comprised!! shocked
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bcrosby
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2008, 04:53:16 PM »

Hrm..

This looks like your typical high wing/low wing  collision. Both of them are in each others blind spots.

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tyketto
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2008, 05:12:40 PM »

Hrm..

This looks like your typical high wing/low wing  collision. Both of them are in each others blind spots.

What makes it worse, is that if this happened at KAPC, that's a towered Class D field! What was the controller doing to miss this deal? Under most operational errors, the controller and possibly the supervisor is sent back to training, but for something like this, would they pull the controllers ticket or sack him?

BL.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 05:27:55 PM »

What makes it worse, is that if this happened at KAPC, that's a towered Class D field!

The accident happened at Sonoma Valley Airport, an uncontrolled airport. 

To comment on your other point about the controllers, flying into a class D airport does NOT relieve the pilot of SEE and AVOID.  If there is a midair in class D airspace, the pilots will still be found to be at fault. 
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 05:57:42 PM »

Sonoma is just on the other side of the county border from APC.

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mk
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2008, 10:38:11 PM »

true true...class b is the only airspace where vfr a/c are insured sep. from other vfr a/c.   afro
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 08:15:27 PM by mk » Logged
flightops1272
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 10:33:39 AM »

Aero News Network lists the photographer as Roger Cain. Here's the link: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=db44d9cf-3547-4fa7-861a-20dc8a2637e0&Dynamic=1&Range=NOW&FromDate=01%2F05%2F2008&ToDate=01%2F11%2F2008&Category=%2Findex.cfm
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fholbert
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2008, 10:45:10 AM »

true true...class b is the only airspace where vfr a/c are insured sep. from other vfr a/c.   afro

How about a TRSA?
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Frank Holbert
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davolijj
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2008, 11:13:23 AM »

It's true, controllers working TRSA airspace will separate VFRs from eachother.  But you don't need a clearance to enter TRSA airspace so VFRs receiving flight following cannot be gauranteed separation from non-participating aircraft.
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mk
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2008, 03:38:57 PM »

true true...i did forget the trsa

but you're banking on that other vfr a/c's participation for the sep. to be applied.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 04:10:15 PM »

Speaking only of US airspace - Unlike class C airspace, participation in radar services for a VFR pilot in TRSA airspace is not mandatory so it is possible that there are aircraft using TRSA airspace that are no radar identified.

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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
fholbert
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008, 09:37:01 PM »

Speaking only of US airspace - Unlike class C airspace, participation in radar services for a VFR pilot in TRSA airspace is not mandatory so it is possible that there are aircraft using TRSA airspace that are no radar identified.

What do you say if you don't want to participate? Is it still "Negative Stage 3".
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Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com
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