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| | |-+  YYZ controller swears when his mike was inadvertantly live
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Author Topic: YYZ controller swears when his mike was inadvertantly live  (Read 42695 times)
Check Airman
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2007, 09:07:48 PM »

Ok I get your point. But i still don't see why the situation warrants anything more than an oral reminder to always have an eye on the transmit light.
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Adrian8
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2007, 11:10:48 PM »

But i still don't see why the situation warrants anything more than an oral reminder...

Becuse he called a female pilot one of the dirtiest words in the English language, be it inadvertently.  By the way, he's back. grin grin grin Running departure right now.  Let's hope he doesn't have any more "slips".
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 11:21:35 PM by Adrian8 » Logged
digger
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2007, 02:14:00 AM »

It's sort of like the distinction between murder and manslaughter. (And I'm not trying to elevate it to anything resembling that level of seriousness, but just trying to illustrate the same sort of difference in intent vs outcome.)

If it had been done with premeditation and malice, it would be more serious yet.

Floor your gas pedal and run down your worst enemy with your car, and there will be severe consequences. Inadvertantly run a red light and run over a perfect stranger, and there will be somewhat different consequences, but you'll still be in trouble Run over someone who darts out from between two parked cars, and the determination might be that you are blameless.

See the similarity/difference?
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bphendri
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2007, 03:04:57 AM »

Glad he is back..

I had a totaly different outcome with the PC Police!


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Studentpilo
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2007, 05:17:50 PM »

I look at it this way. No matter what you do you are always going to end up offending somewhere. This is aviation, tons of stress, cursing is going to happen. Navcanda, the FAA, the JAA whatever spend good money to train these controllers. It would be a waste of time/money/talent to punish someone severely for saying what you hear in movies all the time (Hell we pay to go see those!!). Remind him to watch the mouth, watch the tx light and send him back to work pushing tin and being an asset to society.
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MikeA
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2007, 09:03:14 PM »

Well Have you listened to the Citezens Band radios lately the same rules apply.  But they use foul language a lot.  And they don't get in truoble at all.  You hear about 5 words in 10 mins.  That still doesn't make it right. But it happens sometimes.

In my opionion I think apolgies should be said and I think a supension sould apply  for up to 10 days and then back to work.  Then if it continues to be a problem the further punishment should apply. It does take time and money to train new controllers.  At least he is back though.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 09:05:31 PM by MikeA » Logged

Mike
Adrian8
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« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2007, 07:44:47 PM »

... they use foul language a lot.  And they don't get in truoble at all.  You hear about 5 words in 10 mins.

The difference is this: are there men who are in authority on the frequency calling females arguably the dirtiest word in this language.  I understand your point, but foul language not directed at anyone in particular is much less harmless.
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digger
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« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2007, 08:02:46 PM »

Has anyone considered that the roles could just as easily be reversed? How would you react to an annoyed male pilot (with an inadvertantly open mic), making the same reference to a female controller?

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Check Airman
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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2007, 01:40:37 AM »

I don't think he was throwing words at the specific female pilot. Just swearing randomly. i doubt a controller has time to sit and remember if the voice on ABCXXXX was male or female. As a pilot, when i fly, i'm listening for my callsign. I honestly couldn't tell you what the last controller i spoke to sounded like. That's me listening for 1 voice from 1 controller. Imagine the energy it would take for one controller to remember which voice goes with which flight number. I'm sure in normal ops, they don't. The guy was just using his fav. swear word. The bit with the female pilot is simply coincindence in my opinion.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2007, 08:08:04 AM »

I honestly couldn't tell you what the last controller i spoke to sounded like. That's me listening for 1 voice from 1 controller. Imagine the energy it would take for one controller to remember which voice goes with which flight number.

You didn't say how often you fly (given the check airman moniker sign here, it seems as if you are a professional?), but I fly twice to three times a week, every week for the last three years, under part 91 (General Aviation) - I use my aircraft to commute to work in the Northeast US and for Angel Flight missions.

As a counter to your data point, I can remember not only last night's tower and departure controllers' voices (they both were men), I can remember the male in the intermediary approach facility, the male that handled me on approach to my airport, and the female that handled me on tower frequency to land.  Departure and destination airports are archived here if you want to hear proof.  Smiley

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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
flyer_d
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« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2007, 02:05:49 PM »

I honestly couldn't tell you what the last controller i spoke to sounded like.

That may be true for you, but it is not the case for most pilots.  This has been proven by the (rather humorous) reviews of pilots' reactions to female controllers.  IIRC, the results showed that the pilots were more courteous, more precise (eg, using standard phrases), and more likely to sign off with "good day ma'am" (rather than just "good day").

As to your main point, if you and I were in a room full of people, and I said --

"Check Airman, come over here.  [no response]  Hey Check Airman -- come here!  [no response]  Hey Check Airman, can you hear me, you stupid d___head!"

-- do you think there would be any questions I was talking about you?  Sure, it's not an absolute, but, as the magic 8 ball used to say, "signs point to yes."
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digger
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« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2007, 02:32:46 PM »

We can discuss it until the cows come home, and unless the controller in question comes on here and either fesses up, or makes a convincing denial, we're never going to know for sure.

Personally, I don't think the controller was aware of any "equipment problem" at the time the words were said--he was still trying to reach what he thought was an unresponsive pilot.

The fact is that he made a comment, and what went over the air (and now the internet), was disrespectful to the pilot, contained a profanity, and a gender-specific profanity, while he was attempting to communicate with a pilot of the opposite gender. Rightly or wrongly, that's what he's being judged on, and the unfortunate truth is that the standard of, "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..." is going to prevail.

There's a good lesson here for all concerned, on either side of the mic--as someone said above, treat every mic as if it's hot...
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flyer_d
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« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2007, 03:57:51 PM »

Personally, I don't think the controller was aware of any "equipment problem" at the time the words were said--he was still trying to reach what he thought was an unresponsive pilot. . . . There's a good lesson here for all concerned, on either side of the mic--as someone said above, treat every mic as if it's hot...

Agreed, and well said.
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