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Author Topic: YYZ controller swears when his mike was inadvertantly live  (Read 54979 times)
KSYR-pjr
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« on: January 04, 2007, 01:06:37 PM »

Thanks go to kkjlai for this find.  I was just the editor of the clip.  Smiley

A Toronto controller, not realizing his mike was open and blocking aircraft readbacks, lets loose a series of swear words.  Ouch!

(Clip contains words that may be offensive to some - listener discretion advised)

Note that I included a minute or two of responses after the slip-up in this clip, but they are somewhat disjointed due to this  feed scanning other frequencies.  The gist of the conversation is very obvious, however.


* SwearingOnFrequency.mp3 (2986.2 KB - downloaded 5025 times.)
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ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Yegger
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2007, 01:32:57 PM »

I was wondering why I hadn't heard my favourite guy for a while. That's shocking.  After listening to the Toronto feed for a year and a half, that's my favourite controller, for certain. Really unlucky that the pilot that called right after happened to be a woman.  This controller showed nothing but enthusiasm and class, I looked forward to hearing him.  Shame, really. shocked sad

This is the controller who handled Air France 358 as he came in on August 2, 2005.  After the crash, he expedited a heavy KLM flight and a few Air Canada's off the 24L localizer to their alternates, while sounding stressed because he didn't know the severity of the AF incident, but he handled it well.

Hope he gets back to work soon, and that this doesn't impact his controlling future.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 01:46:57 PM by Adrian8 » Logged
flyer_d
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2007, 03:21:10 PM »

Ouch.

If it had been me flying, I might have wanted to give this read back:  "Up to one-three thousand, Jazz, s__ f__ c__, 7844."

Also, Adrian8, it wasn't unlucky.  That's who he was insulting.  He thought she wasn't responding.

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Yegger
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2007, 03:40:07 PM »

Also, Adrian8, it wasn't unlucky.  That's who he was insulting.  He thought she wasn't responding.

In the A.net thread they're making a good case that he was referring to the communications equipment and whatever was happening, not specifically the female pilot.  Even so, I said "unlucky" because controllers lots of things about pilots under their breath, it was just unlucky that this one got on frequency.
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lostmoon
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 03:57:58 PM »

My golly! That was embarrassing for everyone, I am sure. Terribly unfortunate. The saying: "What you don't know [in this case, "hear"] can't hurt you" really holds so true in this case.

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Yegger
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 04:19:46 PM »

Haven't heard him back yet, this happened 15 days ago.
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flyer_d
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 04:23:21 PM »

In the A.net thread they're making a good case that he was referring to the communications equipment and whatever was happening, not specifically the female pilot.

Yeah, I heard that at the end of the clip too.  Of course, we'll never know for sure.  (I meant to add to my earlier post -- "that's how I interpret it".)

Can you provide a link to the other thread?
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kkjlai
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 04:38:34 PM »

Yeah, I heard that at the end of the clip too.  Of course, we'll never know for sure.  (I meant to add to my earlier post -- "that's how I interpret it".)

Can you provide a link to the other thread?

Try:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3179934/

kkjlai
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RayZor
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 07:03:14 PM »

Ouch I feel bad for that guy.  I think it's kind of unfair that he gets in so much trouble over this; he didn't even know he  was transmitting, and was frustrated that pilots were not receiving his transmissions.  Didn't he swear at the first pilot to say no offense and not the woman pilot?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 07:07:25 PM by RayZor » Logged
dan9125
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 09:30:08 PM »

Great clip, my jaw dropped when I listened to that one. The female pilot was a good sport about the whole thing though.

  Dan
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digger
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 10:22:25 PM »

Quote
In the A.net thread they're making a good case that he was referring to the communications equipment and whatever was happening, not specifically the female pilot.


Sorry. I don't buy that. If you listen to the unedited version, at 28:09 she checks in and he radar identifies her. From then on, there's no question that there's a woman associated with that callsign. Besides which, he wasn't aware that he had an equipment problem until after he'd said it.
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flyer_d
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 10:25:29 PM »

Quote
In the A.net thread they're making a good case that he was referring to the communications equipment and whatever was happening, not specifically the female pilot.


Sorry. I don't buy that. If you listen to the unedited version, at 28:09 she checks in and he radar identifies her. From then on, there's no question that there's a woman associated with that callsign. Besides which, he wasn't aware that he had an equipment problem until after he'd said it.

Exactly what I was thinking.  She was very gracious to give him the "out" that she did.
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Yegger
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 10:42:07 PM »

Quote
In the A.net thread they're making a good case that he was referring to the communications equipment and whatever was happening, not specifically the female pilot.


Sorry. I don't buy that. If you listen to the unedited version, at 28:09 she checks in and he radar identifies her. From then on, there's no question that there's a woman associated with that callsign. Besides which, he wasn't aware that he had an equipment problem until after he'd said it.

Exactly what I was thinking.  She was very gracious to give him the "out" that she did.

That's most likely the case here, as dissapointing as it is. I was just curious as to why several pilots piped in to say that he was referring to the equipment, and was stressed out etc.  The woman that says "I don't think he was reffering to the female pilot of Air Canada", who was that?
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2007, 08:50:54 AM »

I was just curious as to why several pilots piped in to say that he was referring to the equipment, and was stressed out etc. 

Speaking as a general aviation IFR pilot, I suspect that the pilots recognized the controller was stressed and were giving him a break.  Additionally, it sounds much more professional to offer compassion over the airwaves rather than condemnation.

The woman that says "I don't think he was reffering to the female pilot of Air Canada", who was that?

My interpretation is that the pilot was referring to the aircraft's airline name, rather than ATC callsign.  Jazz is a regional carrier for Air Canada, are they not?
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bcrosby
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 09:54:04 AM »

My interpretation is that the pilot was referring to the aircraft's airline name, rather than ATC callsign.  Jazz is a regional carrier for Air Canada, are they not?

That is correct.
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digger
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2007, 12:06:44 AM »

Without going back and listening to the clip again, was it not a mainline Air Canada pilot that commented that he was flying with a female FO that night, and in 32 years he'd never heard anything like that? I think that may be the source of some confusion. I still have no doubt that the controller was referring to the female Jazz pilot.

And I do have to say that she definitely is a class act. If anyone had reason to make a fuss, it was her, and she was perfectly calm and non-accusatory about the whole thing.
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Check Airman
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2007, 10:27:57 PM »

In my opinion, he clearly wasn't aiming anything at her. I don't see why he should get anything more than a reminder that the mic can be stuck.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2007, 10:46:35 PM »

In my opinion, he clearly wasn't aiming anything at her. I don't see why he should get anything more than a reminder that the mic can be stuck.

Swearing over a public-accessible frequency is against FCC (Federal Communications Commission) regulations here in the States and can result in some hefty fines from that governing body.  You just need to look at Howard Stern for proof of that.   Canada's FCC-equivalent has similar, if not tougher, rules.  And yes, the FCC in the States does control some aspects of air-to-air and air-to-ground communication frequencies.  I would imagine that this is the same in Canada.

Regardless of where his tirade was directed,  the controller swore over the air.   The fine was probably from the FCC-equivalent branch of the government (assuming there was one actually levied) and the suspension was most likely handed down by the agency for which he was working. 
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ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
bphendri
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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2007, 01:12:07 AM »


[/quote]

Swearing over a public-accessible frequency is against FCC (Federal Communications Commission) regulations here in the States and can result in some hefty fines 
[/quote]

Very well stated,  As a amateur radio operator, and a Ship Station license holder, and for pretty much all radio services, the penalties for making profane statements is pretty much the same.  a $10,000 fine and or 10 years in prison, plus the revokation of ones operating permit.  Weather or not it is directed toward anyone, or unintentional.

My mother is also a dispatcher for Highway Patrol, and if she made such a blunder, she would be looking at immediate termination, possibly without even much of an investigation, but the Lt. listening to the tapes.  Even though the same could be said that she works in a stressfull enviroment.

It's too bad this happened, especially if he was a good controller, but this sort of thing just isn't tollerated in many work places.



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bcrosby
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2007, 01:29:41 PM »

Hmm..

Who In Canada is responsible for enforcing such laws, is it Industry Canada or the CRTC?

My licence was issued by Industry Canada but I know that the CRTC handles violations on tv/radio. What about transmissions on other wavelengths/frequencies?
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Yegger
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2007, 02:03:46 PM »

I'm thinking that NavCanada has complete authority over the situation.
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Pygmie
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2007, 02:21:10 PM »

No, Nav Canada is not an enforcement or regulating body.  They could suspend the controller, but any fines would be handed down by Industry Canada.

Also, I'd be VERY suprised if this controller was suspended for very long, if at all.
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digger
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2007, 05:49:03 PM »

My favorite controller once said, when someone used naughty language on her frequency, "I'm more afriad of the FCC than I am of the FAA."
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Check Airman
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2007, 11:14:30 PM »

The difference between the personalities stated and the unfortunate controller is that the controller did not intentionally make the broadcast. I suppose the guys who want him hanged have never made a mistake...Let those without sin cast the first stone...
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2007, 09:26:05 AM »

. I suppose the guys who want him hanged have never made a mistake...Let those without sin cast the first stone...

I am not sure to whom you are directing this but since I replied to you the first time, I'll assume it was me.  My post was simply stating a fact that the action itself was against a regulation, not implying innocence or guilt.     Unlike your post, mine was devoid of opinion.


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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
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