Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 22, 2014, 05:41:02 PM
Home Help Login Register      
News: NEW Follow LiveATC updates on Twitter and Facebook


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Aviation
| |-+  Aviation Accidents/Incidents (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  Cessna 172 aborts takeoff at DSM: audio + cockpit video
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Cessna 172 aborts takeoff at DSM: audio + cockpit video  (Read 13556 times)
bcradio
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 04:00:23 PM »

It's an interesting video... If you can walk away with a lesson learned and apply it to your flying in the future then you'll be safer than you were.  That's a good thing.  

Checklists are important..  When we do the same checklist over and over it can sometimes be easy to miss an item or an order.  On the planes I fly Doors/Windows/Seats Secure is the first item after the runup is complete.  If it's not on yours, I would suggest that is a good spot for it.

Also a couple things... You're pretty aggressive on the throttle on the ground.  A Skyhawk with one person on board on pavement doesn't need the throttle jammed up to 1800-1900 rpm to get going.  Be easy on the thottle - aggressive movements can be dangerous and are bad for the engine.

Cleared for takeoff?  Lights, Camera Action (Lights, Transponder, Go)

Hard to tell with the video, but it would appear that your nav lights, landing and taxi light and possibly strobes are off.  I turn them on after being cleared for takeoff and keep them on - anything that makes you easier to see is a good thing.

Transponder on mode 3 when you are lined up / clear for takeoff.. Doing it before can cause problems with false TCAS RAs for other aircraft.  Even if you don't require a transponder in the airspace you are flying in, turn it on.  It is better for ATC to show a secondary target over a prime one, even if it is just a 1200 squawk and allows TCAS equipped aircraft to detect you.

So there you go.. I often listen to the Live ATC recordings of my flight to find out ways I can improve.  It's always good to learn.

Cheers!
Logged
bcradio
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 04:01:50 PM »

That should read Nav lights after engine is on, Strobes and Landing light on after being cleared to go
Logged
Chadan
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 116


WWW
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 07:04:15 PM »

AOPA has some excellent information on the topic of doors popping open...
Fantastic read Biff. Thanks for sharing.
Logged

Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)
Chadan
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 116


WWW
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 07:07:02 PM »

blah blah blah blah
Hey that's a pretty useful technique! Think I'll adopt it grin

But in all seriousness:

And for what its worth, I've had this exact thing happen to me twice, once in a 152 and once in a PA28-161.  And in both situations fiddling with it, taking my eyes away from the windows, and deciding how to handle it was not even a blip on the radar.  I said damn it and continued what I was doing.  The 152 I shut the door once I was in stable flight.  The PA28 required a return to landing since I couldn't get it latched in the air.

There are two choices and only two choices.  Stop and fix it, or fix it in the air...

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences NoMad. I'm glad you chose to contribute to the thread.
Logged

Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)
Chadan
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 116


WWW
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »

Also a couple things... You're pretty aggressive on the throttle on the ground.  A Skyhawk with one person on board on pavement doesn't need the throttle jammed up to 1800-1900 rpm to get going.  Be easy on the thottle - aggressive movements can be dangerous and are bad for the engine.
Thanks for the observation BC. I'll give that a try.

Cleared for takeoff?  Lights, Camera Action (Lights, Transponder, Go)
I think every instructor has a different method - mine teaches a "H.A.T.S." check:
heading, altimeter, transponder, switches/lights

Hard to tell with the video, but it would appear that your nav lights, landing and taxi light and possibly strobes are off.  I turn them on after being cleared for takeoff and keep them on - anything that makes you easier to see is a good thing.
I was taught to keep the lights off in the daytime but daytime running lamps make cars safer so it does seem like a good idea.

Transponder on mode 3 when you are lined up / clear for takeoff.. Doing it before can cause problems with false TCAS RAs for other aircraft.  Even if you don't require a transponder in the airspace you are flying in, turn it on.  It is better for ATC to show a secondary target over a prime one, even if it is just a 1200 squawk and allows TCAS equipped aircraft to detect you.
So you're saying don't turn it to 'altitude' until cleared for takeoff? I have no idea how it shows up on the controllers screen, but if it's better for them to turn it to 'standby' when taxiing then I'll check into it.

So there you go.. I often listen to the Live ATC recordings of my flight to find out ways I can improve.  It's always good to learn.

Cheers!

Yes, this site is invaluable! Thanks Dave!

Good info BC. Thanks for sharing.
Logged

Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)
bcradio
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2011, 11:41:36 PM »

Once you're on the runway, switch the transponder from standby to Mode 3/C (if you have it).  There is a chance that an arriving aircraft equipped with TCAS might pick up your transponder and get a traffic alert.  If the tower guys' radar pings your aircraft on the ground  it could set off a transponder response and can generate a data block on their screen - it might clutter it a bit too.

Lights in the daytime help visibility, for sure.  I'd be wary of a flight school that says not to use them - they're trying to save costs by not having to replace the bulbs as often. 

The way I see it is that anything you can do to improve your visibility, or safety is worth doing.  Not just for safety, but from a legal standpoint as well.  If there was a mid air collsion with one aircraft not having it's nav lights (or stobes on) you can bet the accident investigators and insurance lawyers would be all over it as a contributing factor.

Give your local tower a call and see if they can get you up for a tour.  They can show you what they do and give you tips on how things work on their side of the radio.  It's a pretty cool experience.
Logged
UPRRSLO
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2011, 12:35:00 AM »



And for what its worth, I've had this exact thing happen to me twice, once in a 152 and once in a PA28-161.  And in both situations fiddling with it, taking my eyes away from the windows, and deciding how to handle it was not even a blip on the radar.  I said damn it and continued what I was doing.  The 152 I shut the door once I was in stable flight.  The PA28 required a return to landing since I couldn't get it latched in the air.

There are two choices and only two choices.  Stop and fix it, or fix it in the air.  What you did was dumb.  And putting it on the internet was even dumber.  And showing it off going "look at me!" is the dumbest move of the whole thing.

Any more excuses?
[/quote]

I agreed with everythign you said Nomad right up until you said "Any more excuses". You do seem like a jerk at times IMO. What you said in the first two paragraphs was totally professional. What you said at the end well... You get the idea. If you stick to the facts you think are in error people will respect you more on this forum. Yes, I know I tend to joke around a bit, but I am trying to lighten things up. Cheers.
Logged
UPRRSLO
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2011, 12:36:19 AM »

Sorry Quote didn't work. My bad for the moral police  grin
Logged
ridejumpfly
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 12:38:34 PM »

Once you're on the runway, switch the transponder from standby to Mode 3/C (if you have it).  There is a chance that an arriving aircraft equipped with TCAS might pick up your transponder and get a traffic alert.  If the tower guys' radar pings your aircraft on the ground  it could set off a transponder response and can generate a data block on their screen - it might clutter it a bit too.


It is true that you could tag up on the ground.  At my facility the Mesa (Air Shuttle) aircraft tag up at the gate all the time so we have to put a hold message in the NAS, this is no big deal but just annoying.  As a VFR departure it doesn't have an impact.  We will just suspend your data tag until you depart but like the OP said utilizing SBY until cleared for takeoff is a good practice.  Just be sure to know which airports you fly to use ASD-X (this should be in the ATIS), there you will use ALT on the ground when on movement areas.  As far as TCAS,  inhbits RA's below 1000agl so that shouldn't be a factor.   
Logged
NoMad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 131


« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2011, 03:24:19 PM »

Far as I'm concerned, landing light should be on anytime you're on the runway and during approach or departure.  Strobes from the time you cross the hold short line on departure to crossing it after landing.  Mode C is the same, unless you're at an airport that requires mode C on the ground for ASDE-X.  Tail beacon anytime the engine is running.  Nav lights at night obviously.
Logged
mikenftsmith
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23


« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2011, 08:52:32 PM »

Glad you're not at my field.
I knew we'd find something to agree on!
My reason is because you're obviously a dangerous pilot.  What's your reason?  I'm mean?

Blah blah blah blah

So basically, excuses excuses excuses.  That's what I thought.

And for what its worth, I've had this exact thing happen to me twice, once in a 152 and once in a PA28-161.  And in both situations fiddling with it, taking my eyes away from the windows, and deciding how to handle it was not even a blip on the radar.  I said damn it and continued what I was doing.  The 152 I shut the door once I was in stable flight.  The PA28 required a return to landing since I couldn't get it latched in the air.

There are two choices and only two choices.  Stop and fix it, or fix it in the air.  What you did was dumb.  And putting it on the internet was even dumber.  And showing it off going "look at me!" is the dumbest move of the whole thing.

Any more excuses?
I guess checking your doors was not on your pre flight checklist the two times your doors were not closed?
Logged
NoMad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 131


« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 08:41:51 AM »

I guess checking your doors was not on your pre flight checklist the two times your doors were not closed?
You guess wrong.  It is.  And I did.  This happens to everyone on small GA aircraft at some point.  90% of the time the doors latch fine when you close them.  But once in a while they don't latch and you can't tell until vibration or air pressure pops it open.  The situation has nothing to do with forgetting to close the door (usually).
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!