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Author Topic: Crash @ SFO  (Read 53709 times)
randydarden
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 11:06:05 PM »

ilsrwy35r: I believe the comments to which you are referring can be heard on KSFO tower feel 1800Z at around 27:00 and are after the crash.
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dbperry
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2013, 09:13:28 AM »

and if you listen further, United 885 refers to them (the pedestrians "near the 28L numbers") as apparent survivors.
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rayc56
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 12:38:24 PM »

I'm absolutely amazed at the professionalism of the controllers and pilots. As someone who flys somewhat frequently I never had a clue as to the amount of interplay between the tower and pilots. 
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kahuna
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 03:28:22 PM »

In the stream it sounds like UA 885 (a fully loaded 747 headed for Kansai), is holding short of 28L when the Asiana came down.
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kittyranma
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 04:59:19 PM »

NTSB says stick shaker with a "go around" heard on CVR, and speed below threshold (137kts) on last second of approach on the FDR.  Phone cam via CNN shows high AOA with a cartwheel, not a rollover down the runway.

Armchair speculation: Pilot Error...
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soxkoyanks
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 05:06:42 PM »

New Video shows crash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Orw3rbj5MI

Looks like he was below the glideslope. Probably saw four red lights from the looks of it.

NOTAMs indicate that the glideslope indicator was OTS, so he was probably doing a visual approach:

Data Current as of: Sun, 07 Jul 2013 21:03:00 UTC
SFO   SAN FRANCISCO INTL !SFO 07/039 SFO NAV ILS RWY 28R LLZ/DME OTS 0700-1500 DLY WEF 1307080700-1307121500
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oneeightleft
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 07:14:26 PM »

CNN reported voice recorders indicate the pilot was starting go around procedures 1.5 seconds before impact. That's sounds like a bad altimeter setting, I'm not familiar with the 777 but he couldn't have known how close he was to the ground.
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sykocus
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 07:54:18 PM »

CNN reported voice recorders indicate the pilot was starting go around procedures 1.5 seconds before impact. That's sounds like a bad altimeter setting, I'm not familiar with the 777 but he couldn't have known how close he was to the ground.

They were on a visual approach from, i.e. they had the runway in sight (and it appears from more then 7 miles out. Barring other issues with the plane all they needed to conduct a safe landing were their eyes and accurate airspeed. Also 777s have radar altimeters which are not dependent the altimeter setting to give them a very precise above ground altitude.
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Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
tyketto
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2013, 01:27:03 AM »

CNN reported voice recorders indicate the pilot was starting go around procedures 1.5 seconds before impact. That's sounds like a bad altimeter setting, I'm not familiar with the 777 but he couldn't have known how close he was to the ground.

Doubt it's an altimeter issue. NTSB reported that their approach speed was 137kts at a 7 mile final, with flaps at 30, but also indicated that the speed was significantly slower. Stick shakers started to go off at 1.5 seconds before impact, meaning that their speed was slow enough to cause a stall. Then they started to power up then impact. I'm thinking it's a speed issue at this point, but we'll wait to see what the FDR has to say. They simply didn't have the speed to land and hit the sea wall and PAPIs instead.

BL.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 11:42:40 AM »

Now reports of 2 fatalities and 60+ injured.  Multiple burn injuries.

Emergency services repeated ALL occupants have been accounted for in response to media reports that two people have been killed and said, these reports are untrue. A number of people were taken to hospitals with injuries of varying degrees.

from

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0

AvHerald is now saying two confirmed dead in the crash:

"In a second press conference Saturday evening (Jul 6th San Francisco local time) the fire chief reported, all passengers and crew have been accounted for, final numbers were 2 occupants killed, 10 in critical condition, 38 with serious injuries, 82 with minor injuries, 175 uninjured. The confusion about people being not accounted for was the result of survivors being taken to two different locations at the airport. The two fatalities were 16 year old Chinese girls travelling as part of a school outing."

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 12:03:09 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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tyketto
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2013, 01:10:43 PM »

Now reports of 2 fatalities and 60+ injured.  Multiple burn injuries.

Emergency services repeated ALL occupants have been accounted for in response to media reports that two people have been killed and said, these reports are untrue. A number of people were taken to hospitals with injuries of varying degrees.

from

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0

AvHerald is now saying two confirmed dead in the crash:

"In a second press conference Saturday evening (Jul 6th San Francisco local time) the fire chief reported, all passengers and crew have been accounted for, final numbers were 2 occupants killed, 10 in critical condition, 38 with serious injuries, 82 with minor injuries, 175 uninjured. The confusion about people being not accounted for was the result of survivors being taken to two different locations at the airport. The two fatalities were 16 year old Chinese girls travelling as part of a school outing."

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0

This is correct.. and even more sad.. one of the girls had survived the crash, but may have been run over by emergency vehicles trying to get to the aircraft. Autopsy is still going on to determine that.

BL.
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oktalist
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2013, 04:18:21 PM »

Preliminary FDR/CVR data released by NTSB:

Code:
secs to impact alt(ft) IAS(kts)
-------------------------------------------------------------
        82      1600             autopilot disconnected
        73      1400     170
        54      1000     149
        34       500     134
        16       200     118
         8       125     112     throttles advanced from idle
         7                       crew member calls "speed"
         4                       stick shaker
         3               103     50% thrust and increasing
         1.5                     crew member calls "go around"
         0               106
-------------------------------------------------------------
Vref = 137

They're interviewing the crew today and briefing the press again tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 08:40:36 AM by oktalist » Logged
joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2013, 05:45:59 PM »

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130708/US-San-Francisco-Airliner-Crash/

The aircraft involved is Boeing 777-28E/ER HL7742 (cn 29171/553).

Airliners.net has a couple more pics of the aircraft after the crash...

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?keywords=HL7742&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page_limit=15&page=1&sid=ab0f4e18bde7e739681b79481ad61ce2

In the pic below, she is seen departing KSFO on April 4, 2013.


* 2258365.jpg (250.82 KB, 1250x845 - viewed 641 times.)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 06:45:53 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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maokh
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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2013, 06:07:18 PM »

Has anyone released ADS-B data from the plane? Certainly would have a lot more data points than the radar data.
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AntiguaJim
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« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2013, 10:19:39 PM »

CNN reported voice recorders indicate the pilot was starting go around procedures 1.5 seconds before impact. That's sounds like a bad altimeter setting, I'm not familiar with the 777 but he couldn't have known how close he was to the ground.

Doubt it's an altimeter issue. NTSB reported that their approach speed was 137kts at a 7 mile final, with flaps at 30, but also indicated that the speed was significantly slower. Stick shakers started to go off at 1.5 seconds before impact, meaning that their speed was slow enough to cause a stall. Then they started to power up then impact. I'm thinking it's a speed issue at this point, but we'll wait to see what the FDR has to say. They simply didn't have the speed to land and hit the sea wall and PAPIs instead.

BL.

Agree not an altimeter issue. Was simply, IMHO, too low too slow. Why didn't the Captain trainer notice the below airspeed much earlier and correct? ILS had been out as well as PAPI lights for some time for 28L.
Visually, the PIC should have been able to see he was too low and too slow even without PAPI in time to execute a successful GA.
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