Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA  (Read 261058 times)

Offline Rick108

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2014, 11:33:59 AM »
I don't understand how it could have flown for 7 hours, if it only had enough fuel to fly for 4-5 hours. That means that either the pilots really know how to conserve fuel, or one of the reports (fuel capacity or the report that it flew for 7 hours) is not true. Correct?
The flight was 5.5 hours in length, plus ground time, plus a fuel reserve of usually an hour or more.  It could have easily had 7 hours worth of fuel.
That would be 7 hours of fuel for a trip at altitude.  But, if this flight descended and was flying at a few thousand feet (maybe to evade radar?) as some reports have indicated, it would have MUCH less than 7 hours of fuel.

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2014, 12:30:11 PM »
Well, if he was going to fly that low, he might as well have been flying at 50' in ground effect... who knows how long he could have gone that way?

Offline SolarEclipse

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2014, 02:40:45 PM »
Like half the world, I've found this story captivating and am waiting for the movie.  This theory started floating around my Facebook feed.  I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine if it's feasible or not.  What does everyone here think?

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

Offline JohnN

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #103 on: March 18, 2014, 11:48:20 AM »
Now people are claiming that they saw a low flying aircraft that matches the description of MAS370 flying over the Maldives. http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

Offline w.pasman

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #104 on: March 18, 2014, 03:26:44 PM »
Yes, the plot thickens  :-)

Not much space there to land it in 1 piece. Bit hard to build a temporary landing strip a few miles long ? Maybe try to land on the water? Could it be that there was very valuable cargo (Chinese gold?) and that they had a salvage team prepared on the planned crash site? And then sink the remains to the sea floor? Too much fun, I hope they find more exciting clues  :-P

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #105 on: March 18, 2014, 04:52:22 PM »
One thing that might point to the hijacked cargo theory is whether Emilio Largo (No.2) was sailing the Disco Volante anywhere in the Indian Ocean at the time. Perhaps they should review that video of the two pilots going through security and note the angle at which the captain wore his cap...

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2014, 12:40:36 PM »
The Search Area is now a staggering 2.94 MILLION Square Miles...  :|

Offline RonR

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Offline JohnN

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2014, 11:32:40 PM »
Australia is reporting that they have spotted debris that may belong to MAS370.
http://news.sky.com/story/1228904/missing-plane-objects-may-be-mh370-debris

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #109 on: March 20, 2014, 03:06:00 AM »
I was just wondering If the 777 was flying at 25K ft and runs out of fuel,  what will the AP do or will it modify to glide the plane down or it will just nose dive down ?  any ideas ?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 03:09:20 AM by xiangster »

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #110 on: March 20, 2014, 11:59:51 AM »
Boeing should be able to answer that one... it's a fly by wire aircraft, meaning you need power, both electrical and hydraulic to operate flight control surfaces. When the batteries and/or hydraulic accumulators deplete control is lost, however it seems to me that if I were designing the software I would have it monitor the power sources and assure that the aircraft was in best glide configuration prior to total loss of power. The 777 is supposedly a very stable aircraft, meaning if it were properly trimmed it may go on for some time with no control input, perhaps wallowing and porpoising a bit, but not doing what the movies and cartoons think planes do when they lose power... like zombies brought back to life that immediately need to strangle somebody, airplanes always stop in midair, pivot nose down and dive straight for the ground, usually to the sound of a Stuka dive bomber siren.

It's a good question. It's also why I hate being in any fly by wire aircraft not equipped with ejection seats.

Offline falstro

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #111 on: March 21, 2014, 05:06:01 AM »
Boeing should be able to answer that one... it's a fly by wire aircraft, meaning you need power, both electrical and hydraulic to operate flight control surfaces. When the batteries and/or hydraulic accumulators deplete control is lost, however it seems to me that if I were designing the software I would have it monitor the power sources and assure that the aircraft was in best glide configuration prior to total loss of power. The 777 is supposedly a very stable aircraft, meaning if it were properly trimmed it may go on for some time with no control input, perhaps wallowing and porpoising a bit, but not doing what the movies and cartoons think planes do when they lose power... like zombies brought back to life that immediately need to strangle somebody, airplanes always stop in midair, pivot nose down and dive straight for the ground, usually to the sound of a Stuka dive bomber siren.

It's a good question. It's also why I hate being in any fly by wire aircraft not equipped with ejection seats.

The 777 automatically deploys a RAT (ram air turbine) in case of total power failure to generate enough power to allow for at least partial control (electric, and hydraulic). The AP would most probably disconnect (I would assume, but I'm no 777 driver) when the engines flame out at the latest, but it would certainly still be flyable, and lacking any control inputs I would assume, like you, that it would maintain trimmed airspeed and not stall.

Some aircraft use a RAT, others, like the 747 rely on windmilling engines to power the generators even after they run out of fuel.

Offline RonR

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #112 on: March 21, 2014, 10:45:44 AM »
A few days ago the subject of TCAS came up (a link to an article was posted that suggested that MAH370 turned off their transponder so that they could not be picked up on another aircraft's TCAS).

My question is: how does a TCAS system know where another aircraft is located?  Is it receiving GPS info from the other nearby aircraft or is done another way?  I always thought it was GPS based but now I'm not so sure...

Ron

Offline N/A

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2014, 11:42:49 AM »
-
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 03:28:41 PM by None. »

Offline RonR

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #114 on: March 21, 2014, 12:25:52 PM »
OK, thanks, that makes sense.  I hadn't considered signal triangulation before.

Offline jvnanu

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #115 on: March 21, 2014, 06:09:01 PM »
So I posted this to the wrong forum (my bad), but what do you guys think of this...

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/protocol-for-contacting-next-controller-when-passed-along/

As far as I know (and RonR sort of confirmed on the other thread) whenever an airplane is passed along from one controller to the next their protocol is that they contact that new controller right away. Based on what I've read and seen in the news the last transmission from the plane was to an area controller leaving Malaysia and entering Vietnam. At the time of that transmission everything seemed normal. The pilot then should have contacted the controller in Vietnam without delay. The fact that this not happened is striking.

If this were an accident... either a fire on board or some catastrophic mechanical failure, wouldn't it have had to happen exactly that moment right after they said good night to the Malaysian controllers? I mean, that's a window of what... 10 or 20 seconds? It could have been a coincidence, but that's a pretty big coincidence. Out of all in flight emergencies that could occur there aren't many that would prohibit the pilot from making some sort of communication. What are the chances that just such a catastrophe could occur exactly seconds after the pilots switched from Malaysian to Vietnamese controllers? One popular theory is a fire caused by or fueled by potentially improperly stored batteries. Fires can spread quickly, but can they spread THAT quickly that the situation would go from "Thank you good night" to HOLY CRAP in half a minute? And wouldn't there be a smell of smoke first that would trigger some sort of communication in the first place? The timing of that strikes me as very strange. What do you guys think?

Offline tca1937

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #116 on: March 23, 2014, 09:38:13 PM »
Is the acknowledgment of only reading back the flight number normal procedure in Malaysian airspace?

See a portion of the transcript below where KLATC simply replies with "MH370" after receiving a flight level report.

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html



KL RADAR

00:46:51 MH370: KL ATC, This is MH370

ATC: MH370, please climb to flight altitude 250

00:46:54 MH370: MH370 is climbing to flight altitude 250

00:50:06 ATC: MH370, climbing to flight altitude 350

00:50:09 MH370: This is MH370, flight altitude 350

01:01:14 MH370: MH370 remaining in flight altitude 350

01:01:19 ATC: MH370

01:07:55 MH370: MH370 remaining in flight altitude 350

01:08:00 ATC: MH370

01:19:24 ATC: MH370, please contact Hu Chi Minh City 120.9, goodnight

01:19:29 MH370: All right, good night

Offline sykocus

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2014, 05:01:21 AM »
It maybe an ICAO rule but in some countries (aparently Malaysia)there is a rule that ATC has to acknowledge pilot read backs of altitude clearances. This is not a rule in America. 

Offline RonR

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Offline JohnN

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2014, 11:40:54 AM »
CNN says that satellite experts have concluded that MAS370 crashed into the Indian Ocean. The Prime Minister of Malaysia has said that no one survived.

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #120 on: March 24, 2014, 01:08:31 PM »
As I said in the beginning, in a few years we will learn that it was a pilot suicide, deliberately flying to the end of the world in an attempt to have the CVR and FDR irrecoverable. Judging by the size of the debris, if in fact it is from the aircraft, most likely is that he darkened the aircraft, killed off the passengers in the initial climb to FL450, intercepted and followed SA68 northwest out of the Strait of Malacca and out into the Indian Ocean, then set the autopilot for the South Pole and after a few hours swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills.


Offline Chadan

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #122 on: March 28, 2014, 10:18:32 AM »
I was hoping for something a little more current than Tuesday...
They've moved the search area significantly in the past 24 hrs based on estimated fuel exhaustion calculations, bringing it closer to Perth and providing aircraft about twice the search time before refueling. Perhaps the next search period will find at least a scrap of tangible evidence.

Offline RonR

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #123 on: March 28, 2014, 10:34:23 AM »
Yeah, sorry, I only just came across that article today...here is the latest news that I could find.  It supports what you said about the search area being moved and based the move on new radar data analysis...

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/03/malaysia-flight-370-latest-radar-data-sends-searchers-700-miles-north/

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #124 on: March 28, 2014, 11:22:39 AM »
Just heard unconformed reports that 5/10 planes spotted various objects in the new search area. In some cases, big debris. Won't know till tomorrow. But looks promising of finding something ships are on the way now ....