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Author Topic: Strange Crash Of A First Air B737 At Resolute Bay  (Read 5902 times)
joeyb747
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« on: August 22, 2011, 07:40:14 PM »

If I'm reading this right, the aircraft involved in this crash (First Air Boeing 737-210C/Adv C-GNWN) was a mile off the ILS when it impacted the hill.

The aircraft was on approach to the airport, the crew called a 3nm final.

There was fog in the area.

The question here is was it a navigational error in the aircraft systems, or a problem in the ILS system itself? The ILS was NOTAMed as unserviceable after the crash, but that is SOP until it is checked out.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4419c56e&opt=0

Below is a pic of the aircraft involved:





* 1881102.jpg (257.02 KB, 1200x812 - viewed 815 times.)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 07:43:26 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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NoMad
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 08:47:24 PM »

That is extremely strange.  I'll throw another wrench in the gears of this one.  If the Nav receiver was on the fritz, or if the ILS transmitter was on the fritz, the GPS location and it's overlay would still be functioning.  I don't know what the displays in this particular aircraft are showing, but if it does show that as well, then I don't see how you could be that far off course and not notice.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 09:45:59 PM »

I'm not sure this old bird had GPS...here is a shot of C-GNWN's flight deck:


* 0735441.jpg (267.01 KB, 936x755 - viewed 818 times.)
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NoMad
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 09:50:15 PM »

Oh my.  Maybe they should have a 496 on the yoke or something when flying out there from now on....

The only way I can figure they ended up over there is if they were doing a circle to land 17, since the wind was clearly favoring 17.  I don't see any indication of that being their intention, however there is nothing saying it wasn't either.  I don't see how even a massive instrumentation failure could have put them over there by accident so to me its the only explanation possible at this time.

With that said, even it ends up being the case, that explains their lateral position.  Still doesn't explain their vertical position...  mainly the part where they crashed into terrain.  Unfortunately human error is the most likely culprit to that one.  Will be interesting to see the final results.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 11:57:09 PM by NoMad » Logged
joeyb747
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 04:59:27 PM »

They called in 3nm final for 35T. No mention of a circle to land was made. Very odd...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 11:25:32 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 11:29:10 PM »

"NAV Canada reported the aircraft was on an ILS/DME approach to runway 35T when it collided with terrain east of the runway at N74.71883 W94.91867. 4 crew and 8 passengers perished, 3 passengers received non-life threatening injuries. Weather was reported: 200 feet cloud ceiling, 3 miles visibility with fog and drizzle, wind from 180 degrees at 10 knots."

From the updated AvHerald article...Guess that answers the circle to land question...

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NoMad
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 09:00:21 AM »

Not really.  A circle to land procedure in conjunction with an ILS is perfectly normal and routine.  When the WX requires an ILS to get down and the ceilings and visibility are high enough upon getting down, you can execute a circle to land on whatever other runway is appropriate and authorized.

When they called their three mile final, they would not know at that time if the WX would allow a circle to land on 17 and therefore would not say anything about it.  IMO, the got down and felt they had the WX for a circle to land and attempted to execute one.  And that failed.  This is an uncontrolled airport.  They are under no obligation to announce they are doing the circle to land.  The fact that they did not say they were going to do it means nothing.  People come and go from uncontrolled airports all the time without a word.

And the fact remains there is no other logical explanation for the aircraft being over there.  If it sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, its probably duck.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 09:52:05 AM »

Circle to land is a possibility.

I guess we will have to wait for the CVR to be released to know exactly what was happening on that flight deck...
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Hollis
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 01:12:35 PM »

"So down we went and soon we were enveloped in heavy dark cloud.  "Straight ahead at a distance of two miles", the radar operator was telling the pilot over the intercom.  Down through the blackness we continued to go.  2000 feet, 1500 feet, 1000 feet.  "Straight ahead, one mile", the radar operator intoned.  Down we continued through the dark cloud.  500 feet, 400 feet, 300 feet.  The cloud was suddenly less dark.  A small opening appeared, not below, but straight ahead and above.
   Suddenly the flight engineer yelled, "Pull up, pull up" as both pilots applied full power to the four throttles and turned sharply to the port, pulling the sticks back as far as they could as the aircraft shot skyward in a steep turning climb.  The landing strip the radar operator was guiding us onto was the range of hills about a half mile off to the side of the runway.  We all held our breadth untl we reached an altitude higher than the known altitude of the range of hills.  We would live to see another day after all!"

Just as a matter of interest, the above is quoted from my brother's 'diary'. An attempted landing at Resolute Bay with a 4-engine military aircraft. A long time ago. No ILS or GCA back then.
Sounds like the same scenario.
 
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NoMad
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2011, 02:14:36 PM »

Just as a matter of interest, the above is quoted from my brother's 'diary'. An attempted landing at Resolute Bay with a 4-engine military aircraft. A long time ago. No ILS or GCA back then.
Sounds like the same scenario.
Except they were on an ILS, not a radar vector.
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