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| | |-+  "If you can hear me rock your wings" LOL
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Author Topic: "If you can hear me rock your wings" LOL  (Read 8962 times)
philip
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« on: June 18, 2008, 03:19:57 PM »

Sorry but I just thought that was a funny comment...the ground control just a minute ago at JFK saying to jet blue "If you can hear me, rock your wings" I mean he's on the ground ROFL Cheesy
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 03:33:17 PM »

If the plane is a rockin' don't come a knockin'.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 07:58:25 PM »

"Rock your wings" was probably easier to say than "move your control surfaces."  Wagging your ailerons when on the ground is a standard way to acknowledge tower in a NORDO operation.

--Carlos V.
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jahulian
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 10:39:58 PM »

ummm... why would JetBlue operate under NORDO?
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Switch Monkey
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 12:48:33 AM »

ummm... why would JetBlue operate under NORDO?


ummm....broke radio, wax in ears, forgot to plug in headest.
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SweedChef
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 07:54:29 AM »

Guys, I think it was a joke. The comedian ground controller was working.

Any idea exactly when that was? I tried to find it to post but had no luck.
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philip
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 02:47:27 PM »

Same time that I posted the post Cheesy
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cessna157
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2008, 10:30:47 PM »

Must be the guy's only ammo.  Was taxiing out (will post a thread/interesting picture in a moment) today and ground had an American not answering him, told him "If you hear ground, rock your wings"
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philip
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 01:07:41 PM »

Be great if they did have other ammo...like if you hear ground get the flight attendent to shake their bum at the window Cheesy
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aviator_06
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 04:12:16 PM »

No Audio Clip?
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2008, 05:53:45 PM »

"Rock your wings" was probably easier to say than "move your control surfaces."  Wagging your ailerons when on the ground is a standard way to acknowledge tower in a NORDO operation.

--Carlos V.


If you are nordo, how would you know WHEN to wag any control surfaces??? 

For tower OPS, there is a light gun process in acknowledging ATC and they can use the light gun for ground OPS, but that comes from tower, not ground.  You use your lights or control surfaces or even your transponder IDENT in the case where you may be able to hear but not transmit.

Allen
Aviation videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/BeechSundowner
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 04:26:41 PM »


If you are nordo, how would you know WHEN to wag any control surfaces??? 

Like you mentioned, there's various grades of NORDO.  I myself have had instances where either my PTT quit, or my mic quit and I could hear, but not transmit.

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For tower OPS, there is a light gun process in acknowledging ATC and they can use the light gun for ground OPS, but that comes from tower, not ground.

Hard to look at the tower light gun signals if you're facing away in an airliner on a narrow taxiway and can't turn around.

It is all part of the options in the controller/pilot bag of tricks.

--Carlos V.
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NatcaDog
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 10:24:29 AM »

If you are nordo, how would you know WHEN to wag any control surfaces??? 

That's why the first word of the instruction is "If."

For tower OPS, there is a light gun process in acknowledging ATC and they can use the light gun for ground OPS, but that comes from tower, not ground.

Ummm...just where do you think the ground controller is? That's why towers are tall, and located where (hopefully) all the movement areas can be seen from.

You use your lights or control surfaces or even your transponder IDENT in the case where you may be able to hear but not transmit.

And if you are facing away from the tower, or if the airport doesn't have ground movement radar, how would you acknowledge the instruction?

Like others have stated, it's an option that can be used when trying to communicate with a NORDO aircraft. Would it have been clearer if the controller had said "...move your control surfaces/flaps?" "Rock your wings" is pretty standard in a VFR tower environment, so most pilots understand it.

FWIW, there is actually a prescribed phraseology in FAA Order 7110.65, that says "If you hear (facility name), ident." Over 19 yeasr in the business, and I can't figure out why we just can't say "Ident." If the pilot hears it, he will. If he doesn't, he won't. Pretty simple.
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 07:58:18 PM »


Ummm...just where do you think the ground controller is? That's why towers are tall, and located where (hopefully) all the movement areas can be seen from.

DUHHHH, should have thought of that before posting. good point!

And if you are facing away from the tower, or if the airport doesn't have ground movement radar, how would you acknowledge the instruction?

For your first sentence, turn toward the tower.  If I was NORDO and got permission prior to taxi, I would not move into a movement area unless I received a visual instruction.  Most ramps are in non movement areas and you can taxi or turn into a position to see the tower.  Of course if the AFD sez that certain area was not visible by tower, then there probably is in place via phone call the ability to get taxi instructions.

KJAN to my knowledge doesn't have ground radar so again, light gun instructions would apply.  http://www.csgnetwork.com/avlightsignals.html for those that may not be familiar with light gun ops (I C you are ATC so I figure you already know)  grin

To answer your question on acknowledgement assuming electrical system wasn't the cause of NORDO, blinking the landing light would help or moving the control surfaces with the hopes the tower folks were using binoculars.


FWIW, there is actually a prescribed phraseology in FAA Order 7110.65, that says "If you hear (facility name), ident." Over 19 yeasr in the business, and I can't figure out why we just can't say "Ident." If the pilot hears it, he will. If he doesn't, he won't. Pretty simple.

Having worked for the gubment myself, figuring out what the bean counters make up in rules boggles my mind, fully understand what you say  shocked

Allen
Aviation videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/BeechSundowner
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 08:06:58 PM by beechsundowner » Logged

NatcaDog
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2008, 10:03:48 AM »

For your first sentence, turn toward the tower.  If I was NORDO and got permission prior to taxi, I would not move into a movement area unless I received a visual instruction.  Most ramps are in non movement areas and you can taxi or turn into a position to see the tower.  Of course if the AFD sez that certain area was not visible by tower, then there probably is in place via phone call the ability to get taxi instructions.

KJAN to my knowledge doesn't have ground radar so again, light gun instructions would apply.  http://www.csgnetwork.com/avlightsignals.html for those that may not be familiar with light gun ops (I C you are ATC so I figure you already know) 

To answer your question on acknowledgement assuming electrical system wasn't the cause of NORDO, blinking the landing light would help or moving the control surfaces with the hopes the tower folks were using binoculars.


If the NORDO situation had started while the aircraft was on the ramp, then most of the time, I would expect the aircraft to STAY ON THE RAMP!

If the situation occurred while already taxiing, and the controller needed to amend the issued clearance/instructions, is where it gets tricky. If the aircraft was pointed in a direction whereby the controller could see it's lights, then the lights would work. But what if the aircraft was pointed in another direction?

Again, it's just another of the many, but limited, tools at the controller's disposal. In an unusual situation like a NORDO aircraft taxiing, we do whatever we can to ensure the safest possible outcome.

BTW, don't assume that you'll see the light gun signals just becasue we're using them. Especially during the day. Those guns are OLD, and the bulbs and/or reflectors aren't the best. Also, the next time you're taxiing, really pay attention to how much time you spend watching the tower for a light gun signal. If you KNOW you're NORDO, maybe. But what if you DON'T know?

We recently had 2 - that's TWO - FSDO safety inspectors in an aircraft cross a runway after being specifically told to hold short. And yes, they read it back properly. So ANYONE can have a situation that could include not having one's situational awareness completely in check.
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