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Author Topic: *Air France jet missing over Atlantic*  (Read 53684 times)
leavinonajetplane
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« on: June 01, 2009, 06:09:12 AM »

CNN breaking news reports, "Air France jet bound for Paris from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, with 216 aboard, missing over Atlantic, airline confirms."

Very sad.  God bless those passengers and their families in what sounds to be a tragic event.
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leavinonajetplane
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 06:20:15 AM »

CNN breaking news reports, "Air France jet bound for Paris from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, with 216 aboard, missing over Atlantic, airline confirms."

Very sad.  God bless those passengers and their families in what sounds to be a tragic event.

Since my post, CNN has posted more:

A French passenger aircraft carrying 228 people has disappeared from radar off the coast of Brazil, airline officials say.  Air France told CNN the jet was traveling from Rio de Janeiro to Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris when it vanished.

The airline said flight AF447 was carrying 216 passengers in addition to a crew of 12.

French state radio reported a crisis center was being set up at Charles de Galle where the plane had been due to land at 11.15 a.m. local time.

Airport officials in Rio declined to comment on the incident.
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kea001
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 07:14:55 AM »

TIMES ONLINE
  • Air traffic controllers lost contact with the Airbus A330-200 at 0600 GMT, eight hours after it took off from Rio de Janeiro bound for Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris.
  • The aircraft was due to arrive in Paris at 11.10 am (0910GMT), which means that it would have been approaching the coast of North Africa or Spain when it lost contact.
  • The aircraft in question, tail number F-GZCP, came into service in February 2005.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6404837.ece

However, CNN is reporting:
Brazil's air force launched a search near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha in the Atlantic Ocean, 365 km (226 miles) from Brazil's coast, the country's state media said.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/01/air.france.brazil/index.html

REUTERS
"Air France said on Monday a plane that went missing on the way from Brazil to Paris had sent a message at 0214 GMT reporting an electrical short-circuit, after it had flown through a stormy area with strong turbulence."
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSPAB00482020090601

Now REUTERS reporting:
"The last radar contact with an Air France jet missing with 228 people on board was at 10:33 p.m. on Sunday/0133 GMT on Monday after it had flown past islands off Brazil's northern coast, Brazil's air force said."


I also find it hard to believe anyone, as a CNN 'expert' suggests, could land an A330 in 8-12 foot ocean swells.

BBC News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8077437.stm

You can see a weather radar photo at Aviation Herald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1&opt=1


« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 10:10:36 AM by kea001 » Logged
atcman23
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 08:00:23 AM »

Well, that is interesting!  We can't exactly search the entire Atlantic for an aircraft.  I think someone needs a review of non-radar procedures.  There is certainly a big question as to where this aircraft was since CNN and the UK media are reporting two completely different things.  From the UK article posted, they are already speculating on how the plane disappeared.  It's not exactly what you want to read right now; it'll likely take years before we know anything about this aircraft.  It took quite some time to figure out the EgyptAir crash in the late 1990s.

It is a shame though.  The "Today" show compared this aircraft to the A320 and then went right into the Hudson River landing.  The A320 and A330 are two completely aircraft, with the -330 being MUCH bigger (it is a "heavy") and it's not likely the pilot was able to land this aircraft on the water, especially since there was no distress call.
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Mark Spencer
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 08:22:12 AM »

This  AF 447 should have landed in CDG at 1110 (0910 GMT) with
216 passengers n 12 crew members
!!!
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SweedChef
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 08:32:06 AM »

News reports 'lost radar', but isn't that going to happen anyway? Thus the reports that they the plane didn't arrive.

CBC reported this morning that the plane didn't arrive as expected. So I assumed the incident happened anywhere in the Atlantic.
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celius
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 12:32:13 PM »

Not enough information to make any reasoned guess as to what may have happened other than teh "automated" messages as to turbulence and a possible electrical failure.  Hard to beleive that a lightning strike disabled the plane, if it was indeed cruising at 35,000 feet, so it had to be a catastrophic event such as a major turbulance hit which caused immediate catastropic wing failure or an on-board explosion, or, mid-air collision........This one will not be solved unless they are able to locate wreakage of some kind and/or recover the black boxes somehow.  I'm sure that authorities will scour the passenger lists and cargo list to determine if the plane was carrying any questionable passengers, or, hazardous/explosive cargo of any kind.   
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tyketto
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 12:37:25 PM »

News reports 'lost radar', but isn't that going to happen anyway? Thus the reports that they the plane didn't arrive.

CBC reported this morning that the plane didn't arrive as expected. So I assumed the incident happened anywhere in the Atlantic.

Or anywhere over Africa for that matter, except for over/around GVAC, which does have radar services. When they left Brazilian airspace, they're doing the position reports like how things are done over Gander/Shanwick Control for crossing the northern Atlantic. Seems to correspond with what has happened. SBRF control loses contact with the flight, scrambles some jets to look for it, they don't find it, when they leave Brazilian airspace, they are left with using position reports and ETA of reaching a given point (just like everywhere else in the world). That gives them not only their exact route, but a much narrower area to search (give/take 3 - 5 nm or however wide the airway is if they are on an airway).

Luckily, point #3 is near GVAC, so that does give them a chance..

BL.
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EdGeneer
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 01:24:33 PM »

Im sure I am an idiot for thinking this, but if we have gps in our cars so the police and write us tickets for having unreproted accidents, why arent there gps tracking devices in aircraft, especially trans atlantic flights. I realize that trans atlantic flights dont utilize the same communication techniques as over-land handoffs, etc. but it seems to me its somewhat rediculous that they have NO idea where this plane lost electrical power/contact.

I can put a gps in my car for a few hundred dolars, but trans atlantic flights are still using compass, sextants and a 'see ya on the other side'Huh?

This from the industry that wants to shorten the already dense 2min separation to relieve congestion....  perhaps im answering my own question here....
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atcman23
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 01:40:23 PM »

Eventually that is the plan and is part of the NextGen ATC improvements.  Overseas flights have a much higher separation rate depending on altitude and direction of travel.
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Mark Spencer
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 02:07:54 PM »

Comments from Miles O'Brien (former CNN reporter and avid pilot)
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 04:08:46 PM »

From my ISP:

http://www4.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090601/NEWS-US-FRANCE-PLANE/

"But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he said."

From story below:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/01/air.france.brazil/

Truly sad... cry
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Aircraft Mechanic
niteflite
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 05:03:33 PM »

We left Sao Paulo Guarulhos bound for Madrid Barajas, about three hours before the 477 left Rio.  I did not realize bad weather on this route, probably more west of the Air France Route, I think, our Iberia IB 6824 used the UN866. Seems like the AF477 used the UN857 routing via Fernando de Noronja. Is here anyone that spotted the routings of "our" Iberia-flight?? Any response is appreciated...
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kea001
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 07:50:15 PM »

Any response is appreciated...

I understand your question but the only source I know for flight plan data of previous flights is flightaware and they only do flights that originate or end in North America.



I just saw a post on a forum that said these anomalies that get transmitted from the plane to the main computer can then be forwarded to the maintenance manager's blackberry so that by the time the jet arrives at it's destination, there's already a technician ready to take a look.

Of course this plan of action, which is commendable,  has less to do with the customer and more to do with expediting maintenance to keep the plane generating revenue.

To contrast, it looks as if there was a lag of at least a few hours between the disappearance of the flight and the activation of the search and rescue and another lag in time between Air France communicating to the Brazilian Military the data information they received via computer.  Just another example of how the customer gets the shaft.

Once the client is out of the revenue stream, the wheels stop turning.  evil
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 07:54:37 PM by kea001 » Logged
blavatsky3
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 08:41:59 PM »

Does anyone know if was a fault with the ADIRU / ADIRS ?
and was it made by Northrop Grumman ?

Did the crew and passengers lose consciousness ?
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