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Author Topic: 40 knot wind shear just reported on KBUF freq (4/4)  (Read 13076 times)
KSYR-pjr
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« on: April 04, 2007, 10:14:31 AM »

Wow, just heard a report of a plus or minus 40 knot wind shear at 700 feet on the KBUF (Buffalo, NY) frequency.  There is a sharp cold front that just moved through the area and winds are forecast to increase sharply over the next few hours.  A 40 knot change in relative wind at such a low altitude is enough to cause problems with landing or departing aircraft.

I have never heard of such a large wind shear that wasn't associated with a passing thunderstorm before.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
dan9125
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 12:31:18 PM »

Those conditions normally only happen when your on final approach on Monday mornings!

 Dan
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2007, 01:05:46 PM »

Ha...  Actually, the last three weeks I have been driving to Buffalo as the Bonanza has been grounded for its annual inspection, or what I call "AMU Roulette."   (AMU=aviation monetary unit, or 1.0 AMU=$1k).  Every year we spin the wheel and see what Lady Luck delivers.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2007, 03:58:57 PM »

I was up in the tower at BUF the Friday night back in December where we were clocking "regular" gusts up to 64 knots with sustained winds in the 45-55 knot range! Boy that tower really moves...hang on for dear life! 

Greg
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dan9125
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2007, 04:22:22 PM »

Greg,
  I have a tower question. Sometimes in the backround while the controller is talking I hear a two-toned high pitch warning type sound any idea what that might be?

   Thanks, Dan
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Greg01
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2007, 04:39:34 PM »

LA and CA.

LA - Low altitude alert. If the aircraft is on approach, the radar controller is required to call the tower on the landline and let him know of it. Sometimes, this can be inaccurate because the radar measures the LA based on rate of descent. If there is a high rate of descent, the LA warning will go off (and you'll see a red LA next to the aircraft along with that alarm).

CA - collision alert. This will only occur (at least in my experiences) when two returns break the separation minimums. However, a primary target will not trigger anything. The aircraft must have the transponder on (even if it isn't squawking mode C). Of course, the little red "CA" will show up next to the two returns.

These alarms can be silenced, so when the controller advises "Maintain visual separation," and/or uses the "converging rule" and the aircraft get close, they can silence the alarms so they don't become annoying.

Hope this helps. I'm LH can chime in with much more accuracy than I.

Greg
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davolijj
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2007, 10:36:09 PM »

CA - collision alert....

I believe it actually stands for conflict alert, which sounds a little less abrupt.  And it's been a while since I had my STARS training but I believe the CA on STARS is a monotone while the LA alert is dualtoned.
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JD
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 10:44:03 PM »

And it's been a while since I had my STARS training but I believe the CA on STARS is a monotone while the LA alert is dualtoned.

I hear that alert all the time when talking to or monitoring Syracuse ATC. 

EDIT:  (sorry, very poor quoting on my part)  I was specifically responding to the dual-toned alert.  That is the one I hear in the background all the time.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 05:27:01 PM by KSYR-pjr » Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2007, 02:27:02 PM »

Thanks JD, you are correct. My mind was way ahead of my hands. It is indeed Conflict alert. We pilots see it as a collision alert.

Again, my apologies, I wasn't being too specific. The CA is monotone and the LA is dualtone.

Thanks,
Greg
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DashDriver
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 11:21:14 AM »

I flew into BUF that day.  We had a 20 knot gain followed by a 20 kt loss on short final.

Airplane broke and we were stuck there for a few hours.  Wind picked up quite a bit while we were there.  If you heard the rejected takeoff in the late AM, that was yours truly.
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Greg01
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 12:02:02 PM »

Dash,

I take it you fly for Piedmont?

Wink

Greg
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w0x0f
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 01:10:19 PM »

And it's been a while since I had my STARS training but I believe the CA on STARS is a monotone while the LA alert is dualtoned.

JD,

It's good to know that you still have your head in the terminal game. 

Some of you may hear controllers whistling the Sabre Dance in the background while the CA alarm goes off.  It has the same beat.   

w0x0f
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DashDriver
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2007, 09:24:12 AM »

Yeah, I work for Piedmont.
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dan9125
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2007, 11:15:47 AM »

I love the Sabre Dance song! I'm not sure the alarm I was hearing sounded like it but thats ok, thanks for the youtube!
 Go Sabres!

 Dan (KBUF)
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w0x0f
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2007, 01:17:20 PM »

I love the Sabre Dance song! I'm not sure the alarm I was hearing sounded like it but thats ok, thanks for the youtube!
 

The CA is the Sabre Dance.  You were hearing the LA which is the dual-toned alarm that JD mentioned.

w0x0f
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Jason
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2007, 03:46:09 PM »

Here's a clip of an LA tone I made in audacity last year based off the STARS tone.

From what I've heard, the CA tone sounds very similar to the Inner-Marker tone most pilots are used to.

Enjoy,
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 03:55:29 PM by Jason » Logged
davolijj
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2007, 10:19:29 PM »

Some of you may hear controllers whistling the Sabre Dance in the background while the CA alarm goes off.  It has the same beat....

LOL!!  That's funny...I never made the connection before but wow the similarity is striking.  Only controllers would be whacky enough to link those two things together.
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JD
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2007, 08:32:25 AM »

Here's a clip of an LA tone I made in audacity last year based off the STARS tone.

That's the one I always hear.  Thanks for posting the clip, Jason.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
dan9125
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2007, 11:37:54 AM »

Dashdriver,
  I took this pic last summer when runway 23 was closed....might have been you??

http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00657041

Dan (KBUF)
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2007, 01:16:06 PM »

Jason, I thought the sound you made way back when was the CA and you couldnt get a hang on the tone of the MSAW? I guess I mixed up the one you couldn't perfect.

Well here are the sounds I came up with a few months ago with the listed pitches in the STARS TCW/TDW Operators Manual.

For some reason I can never get them to work on winamp and I've even re done them. Just loop them I guess.
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Greg01
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2007, 01:51:12 PM »

Sorry Jason, I'd say PHL is closer.

Greg
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Jason
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2007, 03:31:35 PM »

Jason, I thought the sound you made way back when was the CA and you couldnt get a hang on the tone of the MSAW? I guess I mixed up the one you couldn't perfect.

Well here are the sounds I came up with a few months ago with the listed pitches in the STARS TCW/TDW Operators Manual.

For some reason I can never get them to work on winamp and I've even re done them. Just loop them I guess.

I made the MSAW sound way back; I think you mixed up the one I didn't finish.

The pitch does sound more accurate in your clips since you took it from the STARS TDW manual, but when I loop both clips, they emit a really loud "pop" that I've never heard from the real equipment before.  Could be too much silence at the beginning and end?  Maybe it's just a little exaggerated in the mp3.

Sounds good.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2007, 12:11:52 AM »

Jason, I thought the sound you made way back when was the CA and you couldnt get a hang on the tone of the MSAW? I guess I mixed up the one you couldn't perfect.

Well here are the sounds I came up with a few months ago with the listed pitches in the STARS TCW/TDW Operators Manual.

For some reason I can never get them to work on winamp and I've even re done them. Just loop them I guess.

I made the MSAW sound way back; I think you mixed up the one I didn't finish.

The pitch does sound more accurate in your clips since you took it from the STARS TDW manual, but when I loop both clips, they emit a really loud "pop" that I've never heard from the real equipment before.  Could be too much silence at the beginning and end?  Maybe it's just a little exaggerated in the mp3.

Sounds good.

Yes I figured someone would catch that pop. It annoys me quite a bit. I cant really get rid of it. However it doesnt play that pop on ASRC or VRC so oh well.
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DashDriver
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2007, 10:38:57 AM »

Wish that pic was me.  Very nice shot.  I wasn't in BUF on 3/30 though.
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Jason
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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2007, 06:17:30 PM »

Yes I figured someone would catch that pop. It annoys me quite a bit. I cant really get rid of it. However it doesnt play that pop on ASRC or VRC so oh well.

I can still hear that pop in VRC, but it's not nearly as bas as when you loop it in audacity.  I'll play around with it this weekend.
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