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Author Topic: Acronyms & Abbreviations  (Read 12539 times)
dan9125
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« on: June 12, 2007, 10:15:15 AM »

I hear alot of Acronyms used while listening to ATC. I've heard one I can't figure out. Pilots say it when they get a traffic alert. I think its two letters like RA or TA or something like that. Anyone know this one?

 Thanks
  Dan
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Trevor
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 10:22:13 AM »

TA is traffic advisory. RA is resolution advisory. Both are from the TCAS/ACAS system onboard the aircraft. A traffic advisory just advises the pilot that the computer is tracking a potentially conflicting aircraft and that the pilot should be aware of it but that no action is required at this time. A resolution advisory is more serious - the computer has determined that the traffic is a serious collision hazard and the pilot MUST follow the computer's instruction to climb or descend. Current generation TCAS/ACAS can only solve conflictions vertically, the computers from each aircraft will communicate and ensure that one aircraft receives a climb RA and the other receives a descend RA. If the computer cannot do this (some older TCAS's can only provide TA's and not RA's) then neither aircraft will receive an RA. As a final note, an RA always overrides ATC instructions and clearances.

You can read more on Wikipedia. Click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCAS
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dan9125
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 11:48:46 AM »

Trevor,
  Thanks for clearing that up, I heard a heavy miitary aircraft departing Niagara Falls a few weeks ago when he recieved an "RA" over the scenic Niagara Falls tour. Alot of traffic in that area on a nice day. I knew it was something to do with traffic but couldnt remember the letters.

 TCAS:  Traffic Collision Avoidance System 
 ACAS:  Aircraft Collision Avoidance System 

 Dan
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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 02:08:29 PM »

How about the FISHFINDER Huh?
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dan9125
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 02:13:55 PM »

Thats one of my favorites.
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Unbeliever
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 09:36:45 PM »

"Fishfinder" is the pilot colloquialism for the TCAS/TIS/Traffic display.

--Carlos V.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 02:14:10 PM »

"Fishfinder" is the pilot colloquialism for the TCAS/TIS/Traffic display.

Which, from what I understand, actually means very little to a controller in terms of the controller's expected response. 

ATC:  "United XXX, traffic twelve o'clock, 2 miles, 8,000 feet opposite direction is a Bonanza."

Pilot:  "United XXX has him on the fishfinder."


In the US, the two standard, expected responses that actually result in some type of controller action are:  "Negative traffic" or "Traffic in sight."





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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
davolijj
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 02:53:33 PM »

Perhaps in the future the subsequent transmission will be,

ATC:  "United XXX maintain TCAS separation with the bonanza decend and maintain..."

Scary thought but who knows?
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JD
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 03:31:29 PM »

Scary thought but who knows?

In the future where ADS is a requirement and ATC is being run by the lowest bidder, perhaps that is one such scenario.   Sad

In the meantime those pilots looking to go higher or lower and more direct to their next fix sooner would be better served by spotting traffic with their eyes and then replying with "traffic in sight."     
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Regards, Peter
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davolijj
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 09:36:53 PM »

In the meantime those pilots looking to go higher or lower and more direct to their next fix sooner would be better served by spotting traffic with their eyes and then replying with "traffic in sight."     

Unless they're in Class A airspace where visual separation is prohibitted.
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JD
w0x0f
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 06:59:53 AM »

In the meantime those pilots looking to go higher or lower and more direct to their next fix sooner would be better served by spotting traffic with their eyes and then replying with "traffic in sight."     

Thanks for saying this, Peter.  It means absolutely nothing to the controller when a pilot says they have the aircraft on TCAS.  Valuable frequency time is lost in the process.  Unfortunately there are so many "cool things" for pilots to say that ATC frequencies are full of useless information. 

We don't care if the "ride is smooth".  No you are not "with me," you are level at, climbing, or descending through an altitude.  If you are a departure then I know that you are  "looking for higher."  The higher I get you, the sooner you are out of my hair, or what's left of my hair.  There is probably a very good reason why you are not climbing and I don't have time to explain it to you right now that traffic is in your way.  The sooner I turn you on course, the sooner you leave my airspace.  It is a mutual desire for both of us to get you on course.  You asking to go on course does not move the aircraft which is blocking your route.  The list goes on and on. 

The Aeronautical Information Manual is a time tested document.  It was created through years of practice.  New pilots in this forum, please fight the urge to sound cool and just stick to the phraseology in the AIM.  We will all be better served.  I highly recommend reading this article  http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/182633-1.html

You will be a much better aviator if you read the whole series of articles, but there is a reason that this one is the first in the series.  It's all about safety. 

w0x0f



         
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 09:35:31 PM »

Unless they're in Class A airspace where visual separation is prohibitted.

Serious question, as I have only flown in the flight levels once so far in the Bonanza (and with a transponder that was calibrated by avionics incorrectly, but that is an other story):   Does ATC call out traffic in class A airspace?  It seems that especially now with RSVM (closer flight levels due to reduced separation) that traffic call-outs are not needed there?
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Regards, Peter
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 09:58:38 PM »

You will be a much better aviator if you read the whole series of articles, but there is a reason that this one is the first in the series.  It's all about safety. 

I started taking standardized aviation communication phraseology much more seriously after reading of the runway accident in Sarasota, Florida, where one Cessna waiting at the end of the runway was cleared for takeoff while another farther up the runway and unseen by him was told by tower to taxi into position and hold.  This mistaken instruction by tower happened in part because there was a third Cessna in line behind the first at the end of the runway and the controller thought that third Cessna was the aircraft who called ready using poor phraseology.   In reality, it was the pilot waiting at the intersection taxiway who had called the controller with something like, ""this is...nine six zero we're number two ready for takeoff." when he should have called, "Tower, Cessna XXX, at intersection XXXXX, ready for departure runway XX."

Four people were killed when the first Cessna hit the holding second Cessna at almost takeoff speed.   

The details of that accident are here in the NTSB report for those interested.

Also, I am a big fan of Don Brown's columns over at Avweb.com (which are at Avweb in archive mode but unfortunately for us he has ended his career there as a writer).  For those unaware, Don was a controller out of the Atlanta Center (US) for many years and also a safety manager for the facility for a number of years before he started writing columns offering a controller's view of the ATC/general aviation pilot relationship.   A recurring theme in his columns was AIM recommended phraseology.
 


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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Jason
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 10:36:40 PM »

Also, I am a big fan of Don Brown's columns over at Avweb.com (which are at Avweb in archive mode but unfortunately for us he has ended his career there as a writer).  For those unaware, Don was a controller out of the Atlanta Center (US) for many years and also a safety manager for the facility for a number of years before he started writing columns offering a controller's view of the ATC/general aviation pilot relationship.   A recurring theme in his columns was AIM recommended phraseology.

It is quite a chilling accident indeed and we should all learn from it just as you did.

You can get a list of Don Brown's columns by clicking the following link: http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/list.html.  He also runs his own blog, titled "Get The Flick" which you can find at http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/.
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davolijj
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2007, 09:48:45 AM »

Most of the traffic calls I see in the flight levels are for merging target procedures, and they usually sound something like this:

"United Sixteen and American Twenty-five, traffic twelve o'clock, one zero miles, opposite direction, eastbound seven twenty seven at flight level three three zero, westbound MD-Eighty at flight level three one zero."

It looks like that example from the 7110.65  5-1-8 is a little dated since it doesn't reflect RVSM altitudes but you get the picture.

Traffic advisories as an additional service are not required in class A airspace:

Quote from: 7110.65  2-1-21

2-1-21. TRAFFIC ADVISORIES

Unless an aircraft is operating within Class A airspace or omission is requested by the pilot, issue traffic advisories to all aircraft (IFR or VFR) on your frequency when, in your judgment, their proximity may diminish to less than the applicable separation minima....
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Regards
JD
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