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Author Topic: Affirmative or affirm?  (Read 14336 times)
busy
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« on: November 08, 2006, 12:27:15 AM »

Can you share your own experience with me?
Why do most English-speaking pilots while flying over Russia say "affirmative" whereas (as far as I know) "affirm" is preferred not to be confused with "negative"? Can't make that out.

Thanks in advance.

anna
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Adrian8
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2006, 12:36:56 AM »

"Affirmative" is the offical term.  Those that say "affirm" are simply shortening the term.
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digger
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2006, 12:40:33 AM »

The "PILOT/CONTROLLER GLOSSARY" published by the FAA (http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/PCG/INDEX.HTM) lists "Affirmative", but does not list "affirm". That leads me to believe that, at least as far as the FAA goes, "affirm" falls short of being "proper phraseology". (Although I have heard it used on frequency')
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Lukas Kaufmann
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2006, 01:59:45 PM »

That apparently is different from region to region...the JAA says it should be Affirm and not Affirmative...I guess everyone does it as he likes rolleyes
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michaelawai
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006, 08:32:11 PM »

"Affirmative" is the offical term.  Those that say "affirm" are simply shortening the term.

i was taught during my PPL training in radio phraseology by one of the heads in ATC in the Piarco FIR,, "affirmative" has been replace by "affirm" to avoid conflict with "negative", due to an accident involving mis-communication of the words "affirmative" and "nevegative" due to a slip of the mic, it is a published change. Air Traffic Controllers should be aware of this change.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2006, 11:18:42 AM »


i was taught during my PPL training in radio phraseology by one of the heads in ATC in the Piarco FIR,, "affirmative" has been replace by "affirm" to avoid conflict with "negative", due to an accident involving mis-communication of the words "affirmative" and "nevegative" due to a slip of the mic, it is a published change. Air Traffic Controllers should be aware of this change.

NEGATIVE
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2006, 07:43:47 PM »

i was taught during my PPL training in radio phraseology by one of the heads in ATC in the Piarco FIR,, "affirmative" has been replace by "affirm" to avoid conflict with "negative", due to an accident involving mis-communication of the words "affirmative" and "nevegative" due to a slip of the mic, it is a published change. Air Traffic Controllers should be aware of this change.

Not in this US, it hasn't been replaced.

Affirmative is still the proper word to use to answer in the affirmative.
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Regards, Peter
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busy
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2006, 11:08:02 PM »

Strange, isn't it?
Such a simple word and so many people have different opinions about its usage. Though someone could think it is not important...
Anyway here in Russia we keep to "Affirm".

Thanks,
Anna
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michaelawai
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 08:50:09 PM »

Funny.. cause i also read it in a US aviation magazine about the conflict of the words "affirmative" and "negative",, in the radios exam here,, if we say "affirmative", its WRONG..

Do me a favour and re-check the revised documents on radio telephony.. see what you guys find..

"Affirm" all the way..
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digger
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 09:39:52 PM »

The Pilot/Controller glossary that I posted the link to above is dated August of this year.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2006, 10:45:27 PM »

Funny.. cause i also read it in a US aviation magazine about the conflict of the words "affirmative" and "negative",, in the radios exam here,, if we say "affirmative", its WRONG..

Do me a favour and re-check the revised documents on radio telephony.. see what you guys find..

"Affirm" all the way..



Quote from: FAA AIM-August 2006-Chapter 4-2-3 Section C
Acknowledge with your aircraft identification, either at the beginning or at the end of your transmission, and one of the words "Wilco," "Roger," "Affirmative," "Negative," or other appropriate remarks; e.g., "PIPER TWO ONE FOUR LIMA, ROGER."

I would follow an FAA document over a flying publication any day.
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michaelawai
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2006, 12:24:35 PM »

Funny.. cause i also read it in a US aviation magazine about the conflict of the words "affirmative" and "negative",, in the radios exam here,, if we say "affirmative", its WRONG..

Do me a favour and re-check the revised documents on radio telephony.. see what you guys find..

"Affirm" all the way..



Quote from: FAA AIM-August 2006-Chapter 4-2-3 Section C
Acknowledge with your aircraft identification, either at the beginning or at the end of your transmission, and one of the words "Wilco," "Roger," "Affirmative," "Negative," or other appropriate remarks; e.g., "PIPER TWO ONE FOUR LIMA, ROGER."

I would follow an FAA document over a flying publication any day.


i said DOCUMENTS.. not the magazine.. check it.. im pretty sure ud see a change.. cause if thats in our documents down here,, it must be up there as the whole world falls under the same radio telephony under ICAO...
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2006, 04:41:50 PM »

Quote from: FAA AIM-August 2006-Chapter 4-2-3 Section C
Acknowledge with your aircraft identification, either at the beginning or at the end of your transmission, and one of the words "Wilco," "Roger," "Affirmative," "Negative," or other appropriate remarks; e.g., "PIPER TWO ONE FOUR LIMA, ROGER."

I would follow an FAA document over a flying publication any day.

i said DOCUMENTS.. not the magazine.. check it.. im pretty sure ud see a change.. cause if thats in our documents down here,, it must be up there as the whole world falls under the same radio telephony under ICAO...


Quote from: michaelawai
cause i also read it in a US aviation magazine about the conflict of the words

See whats in the bold....
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michaelawai
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 05:06:22 PM »

no wonder there are so many incidents in the US..

God be with you all
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aerosnoop
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2006, 08:15:04 PM »

michael I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. The Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM) states clearly that use of the word "Affirmative" is correct. Thats about the most official document that you'll find in the U.S. next to the Federal Aviation Regulations. As long as I live in the U.S. I'm going to follow what they suggest.
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