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| | |-+  Affirmative or affirm?
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Author Topic: Affirmative or affirm?  (Read 14272 times)
digger
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2006, 12:47:56 AM »

Quote
no wonder there are so many incidents in the US..

God be with you all

If you can point out one where the difference between "affirm" and "affirmative" was identified as a factor, your post might have some merit.
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michaelawai
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2006, 06:16:39 AM »

im not blowin anything anywhere..

im not from the US..  im under british rules

i fall under the british system.. but if the FAA wants to keep confusing ppl between affirmative and negative with a simple mic clip,, thats them..
far as i know.. british is more recognised.. so im sticking to affirm..

now im goin to eat my ice cream
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w0x0f
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2006, 10:50:25 PM »


i fall under the british system.. but if the FAA wants to keep confusing ppl between affirmative and negative with a simple mic clip,, thats them..
far as i know.. british is more recognised.. so im sticking to affirm..


A cure for clipped transmissions:

http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/182633-1.html

Nothing beats doing it right the first time.  I recommend all of the articles in this series.

By the way...It's Affirmative.

w0x0f
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michaelawai
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2006, 06:16:08 PM »

hey i understand if in the US its affirmative.. no problem with that..

but in other parts of the world.. like in the caribbean.. and as busy said in russia (i believe)

its "affirm"
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busy
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2006, 05:51:10 PM »

Hi
As I understand as soon as you leave US you fall under international laws (so that is ICAO ones). In Appendix 5 to Doc 4444 you can see AFFIRM but this section describes CPDLC message set though I don't think that it must differ from radio communication.   


Thanks,
Busy
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busy
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 08:46:53 PM »

I am sorry I do not listen to lots of controllers I am speaking about foreign (including native and non-native English speakers) pilots flying over Russian airspace. They all say AFFIRMATIVE. And I guess there are plenty of examples at this forum as well. Just listen to the "SORRY WHAT WAS THE FREQUENCY?" at this forum and you will hear that.

Thanks,
Busy
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way-out
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2007, 09:27:15 AM »

ICAO (of which the USA is a member) prescribes "Affirm" as the standard word.
However, most people, controllers alike still use Affirmative  which was officially abandonded ages ago.
 See ICAO Annex 10, Vol 2, chapter 5, Which prescribes required Standards.
Bye,
Way-out.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2007, 09:35:49 AM »

ICAO (of which the USA is a member) prescribes "Affirm" as the standard word.
However, most people, controllers alike still use Affirmative  which was officially abandonded ages ago.
 See ICAO Annex 10, Vol 2, chapter 5, Which prescribes required Standards.
Bye,
Way-out.

Until this changes http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pcg/

Controllers in the US will say affirmative and be correct.  Affirmative may have been abandoned by ICAO, but controllers in the US must follow FAA rules and regulations. 

w0x0f
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tyketto
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2007, 01:22:11 PM »

This has a simple solution, everyone.

The FAA has listed "affirmative" in its documentation. That's fine. ICAO uses "affirm" as its standard.

As the ICAO is international, that doesn't mean that a country could have some other underlying standard or rule they want their controllers and pilots to follow. In this case, the FAA does have something underlying from what ICAO prescribes.

Work with me on this. Smiley Say you live in a country which has a law that states that you must throw away your straw wrapper immediately after you open it. But there is also an international law that states that you must wait until your drink is finished before throwing away the straw wrapper.

Which is going to take precedence? Laws relative to your locale, of course. That doesn't mean it trumps international law, but that international law is supplemental to local law. Such is the same with "affirm" vs. "Affirmative". Both are right, depending on where you are and which regulations apply.

So as a pilot, if you fly from Gatwick to Vegas (VIR43, VIR44), you should probably be up to speed with both regulations in both countries, as well as ICAO regs, as ALL would apply; but local ones to that region would take precedence.

BL.
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XTSKid
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 04:16:11 PM »

no wonder there are so many incidents in the US..

God be with you all

 rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Care to explain what you mean by this?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 04:18:27 PM by XTSKid » Logged

athaker
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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 10:36:38 PM »

you can always just do it JFK style and say "yes"  smiley
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CntrllrATC
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2007, 04:11:38 PM »

I've been an Air Traffic Controller (USA) for 24 years now and I have never heard of an incident involving confusion between "Affirmative" and "Negative".  And I have never heard of the FAA proposal to change to "Affirm".  The consonants in each word make it  distinct. Maybe thats where foreign english pronounciations are causing a problem.
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rpd
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2007, 04:36:50 PM »

I am a US controller also.....Why is this in the clips forum?Huh??
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digger
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2007, 06:26:25 PM »

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Why is this in the clips forum???

Good question. Although it took two pages of posts before anyone noticed it, or thought to ask. Interesting to note that it was a controller who caught the error...    smiley (And that a number of other controllers failed to...)
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CntrllrATC
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2007, 09:51:10 PM »

LOL....I keep airplanes apart....not forums.... cheesy
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