Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 26, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: NEW Follow LiveATC updates on Twitter and Facebook


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Listener Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  religious air traffic controllers and pilots
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: religious air traffic controllers and pilots  (Read 6883 times)
Chananya Freedman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« on: October 16, 2008, 04:51:35 PM »

I am a religious Jew who loves to listen to ATC.  This is a time in the Jewish calendar when there are a lot of holidays when I can't listen.  This is how my two questions arise:  Since I know that Air traffic controllers have very odd schedules, how would you work out your religious and family obligations to fit around your work schedule no matter what your religion is?  Second, are there any Jewish religious controllers or pilots?  If this is not the right place to ask these questions can someone point me in the right direction? 

Thanks 

Chananya
Logged

73's KI6YIL
Chananya Freedman
A HAM Radio operato
An uncle
RV1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 08:04:00 PM »

   I know I won't be speaking for all ATCs, but I imagine that I'll be speaking for some.
   
     Life revolves around work.
   
   Although there are some problems with that statement, it rings true for most aspects of life. Most controllers find themselves missing out on some very important occurrences in life; maybe a niece or nephew's birthday party, a Christmas play, perhaps a special service at a place of worship, Thanksgiving meal at home, Christmas morning. These are just a few examples.
   We can try to get time off (annual leave), call in sick, trade shifts, or just deal with it. After time, we and our families just continue on, knowing that it's part of the job. When I finally had Christmas day off, I didn't know what to do with the rest of the day(it had been years since I'd had it off)!
   We are no different from the police, firemen, ER staff and the convenience store clerks. All of these workers and others like us miss out on many things that those with bankers hours never miss, and sometimes take for granted, like eating supper with your family or tucking your kids into bed each night. Sometimes it's the simplest things that mean the most.
   The govt. does allow some flexibility for religious beliefs, but you sign on to work when told.
                    I attend church when I can. Live the life when I can't.
Logged

Kick butt, take no names, they dont matter anyways
NY Z Pilot
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 195


« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 11:20:55 PM »

I only know 1 jewish controller, and hes a supervisor at EWR. I know he takes some time off for his holidays...
Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 12:10:40 AM »

In my three years working for a 911 ambulance and then one day in the future (you know, a gazillion years from now) as a physician, there have been/will be many times when a religious day will have to be secondary to my duty to others.  It's the sacrifice you make in service industries, especially those with limited staff/flexibility (like health care and air traffic), if you can't find a trade.  Someone has to work, and modern practicality issues dictate that sometimes it must be you or me.  We all have our roles.

As my grandma would say, the Lord will understand.
Logged
KSYR-pjr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1722



« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 07:47:12 AM »

In my three years working for a 911 ambulance and then one day in the future (you know, a gazillion years from now) as a physician, there have been/will be many times when a religious day will have to be secondary to my duty to others.  It's the sacrifice you make in service industries, especially those with limited staff/flexibility (like health care and air traffic), if you can't find a trade.  Someone has to work, and modern practicality issues dictate that sometimes it must be you or me.  We all have our roles.

As my grandma would say, the Lord will understand.

Well stated. 
Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
mhawke
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 106


« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 09:04:21 AM »

In my three years working for a 911 ambulance and then one day in the future (you know, a gazillion years from now) as a physician, there have been/will be many times when a religious day will have to be secondary to my duty to others.  It's the sacrifice you make in service industries, especially those with limited staff/flexibility (like health care and air traffic), if you can't find a trade.  Someone has to work, and modern practicality issues dictate that sometimes it must be you or me.  We all have our roles.

As my grandma would say, the Lord will understand.

As Peter said, well stated.  It extends into many other professions, especially with the global nature of business.  I spend at least one week a month, if not two on business travel, sometimes half way around the world (in Malaysia).  That frequently extends into holidays and family events missed.  Using web phones, cell phones, blackberry, I keep as close as I can and my family is quite understanding.  Its just a fact of life in having a decent paying job that supplies health insurance, especially as the economy thinks about tanking like right now.

That all being said, I do have the utmost respect for air traffic controllers and the job you do and the stress your under.  Many others function under simlar amounts of stress, just different type positions, but you guys do an outstanding job so that I don't worry when I get on a plane about making home in one piece.

Mike
Logged
dorishd
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61



« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 09:13:03 AM »

In my three years working for a 911 ambulance and then one day in the future (you know, a gazillion years from now) as a physician, there have been/will be many times when a religious day will have to be secondary to my duty to others.  It's the sacrifice you make in service industries, especially those with limited staff/flexibility (like health care and air traffic), if you can't find a trade.  Someone has to work, and modern practicality issues dictate that sometimes it must be you or me.  We all have our roles.

Exactly. You can add police and firefighters to the list, sorry if they were already mentioned as I skimmed. During Hurricanes, firefighters must ready their homes and then leave their families before the storm hits. Its public service!
Logged
Hollis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 403


« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 02:14:25 PM »

And most of all, don't forget the Military.
Logged
Scrapper
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 152


« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 06:04:31 PM »

I'm jewish and I'm training to be a controller. While I can't possibly call myself religious, I know that when you pick this kind of job, you do so with the assumption that you are going to have to be flexible about your schedule. As one previous poster stated: "God will understand".

I choose to believe that God will not love you or hate you based on when you celebrate what holiday but how you live your life. As you stated, at the time that you wrote, it's a pretty religious time for the jewish religion, and I myself did not fast this year because of work. But I took time that day anyway to remind myself that it was a solemn day for reflection and for forgiveness, spent extra time with my family and talking to my parents, and I believe that in god's eyes, that, along with the work I do and the sacrifice I make to my family for doing this job is equally good as the sacrifice of fasting.
Logged
Glass-Cockpit.org
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18



WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 09:51:18 PM »

I'm a 15-year police veteran. I read of a law suit brought by a police officer who was a Seventh Day Adventist. As such, he could not work Saturdays. Wellllllllllll, that's probably the one day of the week when police departments need to be at full strength, so the department refused to guarantee the officer every Saturday off. Thus, the lawsuit.

The court held that the nature of many professions require staffing seven days a week, and that it would not necessarily be fair to the other officers who may get one Saturday off every couple of months. Further, the court held that anyone with those religious restrictions should consider those before getting into a profession that requires shift work.

I would like to say, however, that I absolutely respect your convictions and wish you the best of luck in your endeavors!

Pete
WWW.Glass-Cockpit.org
Logged

Fly Safe,
Pete
glencar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176


« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2008, 07:48:03 AM »

We had a 7th Day guy a few years ago & the FAA accommodated him in training but he had a bad lisp & failed to qualify & is now a secretary in a tower. Believe me, we're all better off.
Logged
midcon385
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2008, 07:58:16 AM »

Shalom Chananya,

Well I would suggest you discuss this with your rabbi or another halachic authority. Also, note that in some cases, where protection of life is concerned (doctors, police, firefighters...and perhaps ATC as well) it is halachically permissible to work on Shabbat or Yom Tov if unavoidable. Again, ask your rabbi!

Tim
Logged
Scrapper
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 152


« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2008, 04:26:58 PM »

Again, I fully agree with the comments above... certain jobs need to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week... I believe this is true even in Israel for jews (ie. cops, pilots, etc.). I like to think that those people do it, so others can enjoy their every day lives, etc. and that's why I enjoy working shiftwork, it has nothing to do with my religion, because I'm not all that religious... but I'm sure there are valid exceptions to every rule, including religious ones. Therefore, I fully believe that anyone of ANY religion can do any job, but they need to be aware of what they are getting into before they do it. I do not agree at all with someone who comes into a job and then says that he doesn't want to work any saturdays, or doesn't want to work on this day or that... the idea is to do your ressearch about the job before you get there, and if that's not working conditions you can live with, than it's not necessarily the job for you. I hope that you will follow the advice of the people who posted before me and talk about it with your spiritual leader because I personally think there is nothing more noble than to be an Air Traffic Controller, and I quite enjoy shift work... Good luck, and if you would like to talk more about it, feel free to send me a personal message.
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!