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| | |-+  Are you Golf or Foxtrot
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Author Topic: Are you Golf or Foxtrot  (Read 5859 times)
bcrosby
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« on: April 20, 2006, 07:16:05 PM »

When a controller asks if "you are Golf or Foxtrot" .. what does that mean?
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Cessna172
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2006, 07:21:37 PM »

Probably referring to the ATIS information, as Information Foxtrot and Information Golf are next to each other in the alphabet (F and G, respectively). Each time an airport's ATIS info is updated, the ATIS info is labled the next letter in the alphabet after the previous ATIS. Also, you probably missed this when you heard it, but I would bet you that the controller said "are you WITH Golf or Foxtrot."

Cessna172
Home Airport: West Houston Airport (KIWS)
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Jason
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 07:25:20 PM »

Quote from: bcrosby
When a controller asks if "you are Golf or Foxtrot" .. what does that mean?


It sounds like something is missing from that phrase.  The only two things that I can think of that would relate to that phrase would be equipment suffix(es) or location:

"Are you slant Golf or Foxtrot?"
...meaning are you /G (GNSS, including GPS and WAAS, with enroute and terminal capabilities) or /F (FMS with DME/DME updating)

...or...

"Are you on Golf or Foxtrot?" - Referring to Golf and/or Foxtrot taxiway(s).

Hope this helps,
Jason
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bcrosby
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 08:42:23 PM »

Its a tower controller asking the info. I also thought it had to do with equipment as well... but didn't seem like it was.

I'm going to see if I can dig it up out of the archives.
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bcrosby
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 08:53:12 PM »

Take a look at the clip here

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9698
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digger
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 09:22:51 PM »

I had my wife listen to the clip. I've never seen her look so preplexed in a matter having to do with air traffic.

She doesn't think it has to do with equipment, because he (Tango Whiskey Alpha), doesn't get any kind of a clearance that would require the controller to know--she simply clears him through a control zone, and is never even heard to radar identify him. Also, he's a small amphibian, so there's a possibility that he's equipped with neither of the equipment types in question. It's not a matter of taxiways, because he's already airborne. She thinks it might be something peculiar to that local area. (The fact that it's of Canadian origin opens up some possibilities that she's unfamilair with too.)
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Jason
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 09:36:19 PM »

Quote from: bcrosby


Thanks.  It beats me.... I agree with Digger in regards to it being a local phrase used for that "control zone" but have never heard anything like that before.

Jason
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bcrosby
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 11:25:03 PM »

Interesting.. The control zone is for the Toronto City Centre airport (CYTZ). There is nothing in the CFS that I could find that would indicate anything out of the ordinary.

The control zone is class D airspace.

If you listen to the Toronto Centre (CZYZ) archive (april 20, 7pm eastern) you will hear that she asks a few people transitioning the zone if they are golf or foxtrot.
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Biff
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 11:48:02 PM »

She's asking for his full call sign.  Canadian tail numbers look like "C-FABC" or "C-GABC".  They abbreviate that on the radio to simply "ABC".
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CYTZ
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 12:53:53 AM »

This is right in my backyard, as I fly out of City Center (CYTZ). Every Canadian Reg plane starting with either Charlie Gulf (C-GXXX) or Charlie Fox (C-FXXX). The City Center Controller was thus just trying to verify what the exact reg on the plane was. As SOP for Cdn reg planes usually is to just give your last 3 letters when talking to a Canadian ATC, the city tower controller was just looking for some clarification.

Hope this helps

Ted
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bcrosby
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 08:37:00 AM »

Ahh yeah.. that makes perfect sense!

The pilot should have given his full call sign though and only truncate it when initiated by the controller.

Thanks!
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Cessna172
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 10:29:57 PM »

Well, I stand corrected!   Smiley

Since the clip was not available at the time of my inital post, I could not say for myself whether or not the controller said "are you with golf or foxtrot" or "are you golf or foxtrot." After listening to the clip, it is apparent that the controller indeed says "are you golf or foxtrot." My appologies!

I totally agree with Biff and the rest of the gang about the call sign.

Cessna172
Home Airport: West Houston Airport (KIWS)
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hopskip
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 10:45:37 AM »

I believe the C-G and C-F suggest French or English divisions. G for English... (as similar to the British regos G-XXXX)

In Australia we have VH-XXX and only the last 3 letters change. we never read out "Victor Hotel" unless we are outside of australia. (and never having flown outside of australia myself, I don't have any thoughts on that procedure)

In the same way in the USA you never read out "November" at the beginning of your N123XX

Canadians I believe only have C-Gxxx and C-Fxxx... ie, you will never ever see C-ABCD only C-GABC and C-FABC. This would be why it is truncated to 3 letters on first contact. whereas with a USA callsign, N123AB, only the N is predictable and all of the other 4 or 5 alphanumerals are unique, thus requiring first contact to always be the entire callsign - minus the "N"
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JetScan1
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 11:13:48 AM »

>> I believe the C-G and C-F suggest French or English divisions. G for English... <<

Prior to 1975 all Canadian aircraft were registered using CF-xxx. After that they ran out of available registrations using "F", so they just went to the next letter "G", and changed the format to C-Fxxx or C-Gxxx. It has nothing to do with French or English. Ultra light aircraft use C-Ixxx. DJ
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bcrosby
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 12:43:55 PM »

Quote from: hopskip
Canadians I believe only have C-Gxxx and C-Fxxx... ie, you will never ever see C-ABCD only C-GABC and C-FABC. This would be why it is truncated to 3 letters on first contact.


You arn't supposed to. On initial contact with ATS you must use all four letters (GXXX or FXXX) and continue to use all four until the ATS unit truncates it.. for example:

Pilot: Yazoo Tower Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo with information Yankee
Tower: Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo Go ahead
Pilot: Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo is 5 miles south of the field inbound for landing
Tower: Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo altimeter is 29.92 cleared to the circuit
Pilot: Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo
<later on in the circuit>
Pilot: Yazoo Tower, Foxtrot Alpha Kilo Echo is turning left base for runway 30 full stop
Tower: Alpha Kilo Echo cleared to land runway 30.
Pilot: Alpha Kilo Echo
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