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Author Topic: ATC message - At your discression??  (Read 13292 times)
glencar
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2009, 10:55:40 AM »

Just curious where you work that it won't screw up your sequence?
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sykocus
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2009, 04:03:32 PM »

Guam Center...we have a low plane to airspace ratio. Sad
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2009, 08:32:05 PM »

I've also heard "Speed, your discretion"...below ten thousand speed is restricted to below 250KIAS.
My guess is, as far as that goes,  fly what feels good... grin
Fly what feels good, huh?  Well, my Mach 2+ days used to feel REAL good, especially when flying down low level grin.  Ahhhh, those were the days .... oh so long ago, unfortunately.

Ex-Military I assume...what did you fly if I may ask?   cool
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glencar
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2009, 08:40:07 PM »

Guam Center...we have a low plane to airspace ratio. Sad
Come to NY!
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sykocus
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2009, 09:08:02 PM »

Sure. I've always wanted to visit the east coast.
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atcman23
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2009, 11:16:29 PM »

Guam Center...we have a low plane to airspace ratio. Sad
Come to NY!

NY - Where you have a low airspace to plane ratio.
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Mark Spencer
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2009, 02:10:29 AM »

Wow, KLKM, happy to meet you on here smiley.  And thanks for your input on here.  I never bothered to think about why it was 5000, or such things as how far out they were given that descent.  But you've answered a lot of questions here, and is greatly appreciated.

I do have one question though, and glad you're on here to answer this.  I sometimes (rarely, actually) hear you folks asking someone to come up on 133.5, and I believe there's at least one other one like that - possibly 132.something.  What are those freqs?  I have 133.5 in your feed scanner, but no idea how often it's activated, or even if there's been any comms on it since I entered it grin.  Just curious.

133.5 is the Atlantic Sector, it is to our right, but about 300 miles or so north of Bermuda.  Not sure in what reference you hear this request, but sometimes, if there is a plane that is flying low level, or does not have HF for some reason we will tell them the contact point for the next sector on 133.5, or to the northwest is 126.025.  We do this in case the aircraft cannot get a hold of ARINC on HF's they will at the minimum contact our next radar sector.  But either way you wouldn't hear any comms on that frequency from Bermuda, so you can probably remove it from the scanner. 
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martgenia
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 01:12:10 PM »

So a pilot can fly over 250 speed when under 10k attitude? then if plane hits say a duck, who´s fault is it, pilot or ATCO? because its all monitored I would say ATCO say fly at 200 and whatever and if pilot still hits a seagull noting happens...agree?
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Pilot3033
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 09:32:54 PM »

So a pilot can fly over 250 speed when under 10k attitude? then if plane hits say a duck, who´s fault is it, pilot or ATCO? because its all monitored I would say ATCO say fly at 200 and whatever and if pilot still hits a seagull noting happens...agree?

The speed restrictions has nothing to do with fowl and everything to do with playing nice the smaller and slower traffic (and to an extent: noise abatement). If a plane hits a bird, it's not really anyone's fault.

As far as exceeding the restriction, a controller can issue an exemption. Certain heavy aircraft, for example, prefer to climb out at a higher rate of speed, and the regulations (in the US at least) guiding the speed restrictions have an exemption that allows aircraft to operate at their minimum safe speed, even if it is greater than the restriction.

Quote from: FAA FAR § 91.117
§ 91.117   Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

Emphasis mine.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 09:34:26 PM by Pilot3033 » Logged
sykocus
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2009, 02:19:26 AM »

As far as exceeding the restriction, a controller can issue an exemption. Certain heavy aircraft, for example, prefer to climb out at a higher rate of speed, and the regulations (in the US at least) guiding the speed restrictions have an exemption that allows aircraft to operate at their minimum safe speed, even if it is greater than the restriction.

Quote from: FAA FAR § 91.117
§ 91.117   Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

...

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

Emphasis mine.

I think you misunderstand that section of the FAR. It says the administrator can authorize exemption from the 250kt rule not controllers. Aircraft who's minimum safe airspeed is higher then 250kts are allowed to go faster then 250 by the section of the far, not controllers.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 07:16:59 AM by sykocus » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2009, 08:17:35 AM »

In all fairness, I can't think of many aircraft with a min safe speed of 250 kias...
The B747-200 for example, is flaps up and clean at 235 kias. 170 kias in the 747-200 is saftey speed, that means the aircraft will climb at 170 kias with take-off flaps set.
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Aircraft Mechanic
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2009, 08:34:30 PM »

T38 / F5 gets a pass on the 250 KT rule.

--Carlos V.
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bluecrewfan08
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2009, 08:35:58 PM »

Almost all major airports' ramps are not controlled by ATC.  They are either uncontrolled (like SYR) or are controlled by the airline that has the largest presence at that airport.

I agree, if you mean " at that terminal" rather then at that airport.


Rob
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