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Author Topic: British ATC  (Read 15043 times)
ukflyer
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« on: August 13, 2004, 12:24:21 PM »

Hi
I am located near Birmingham International England Right under the main airway to Europe good reception for Heathrow and Gatwick also monitor North Atlantic traffic on HF.
       Cheers      
                Bill
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jester115
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2004, 05:01:48 PM »

hey, I heard (read) on another post that it was illegal to do that in Europe.  Someone was tlaking about France ATC and the question about legallity came up.  I'd check to make sure feeds of that nature are legal before you put one on.
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dave
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2004, 05:41:43 PM »

Quote from: jester115
hey, I heard (read) on another post that it was illegal to do that in Europe.  Someone was tlaking about France ATC and the question about legallity came up.  I'd check to make sure feeds of that nature are legal before you put one on.


Both the UK and France take a dim view of this.  I have refused many feeds from the UK.  Too bad it has to be this way.

See here fore more info:

http://www.strongsignals.net/access/content/laws.html

-Dave
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Jane G
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2004, 10:31:11 AM »

Can someone please explain to me exactly why British ATC and all other radio transmissions eminating from the UK per   http://www.strongsignals.net/access/content/laws.html are off limits? Is this a hangover from WWII?

Aside from that I have a couple of recordings of the final Concorde flights that have obviously been recorded in the UK so it's obvious that the anti-scanning laws have little effect.

Cheers

Jane G
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Polehill
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 09:01:48 AM »

Here is an e-mail I just received on the 29th Dec 2004 from the UK regulatory authority, in response to my questioning the 1949 Wireless Telegraphy act.

Dear Mr D
 
Thank you for your email.  
 
Our website page http://www.ofcom.org.uk/codes_guidelines/radio_comms/enforcement/ofw156?a=87101
sets out the legal position and explains that it an offence under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 to listen to radio services unless authorised to do so. Radio services which can be listened to without a licence are licensed broadcasting stations, amateur and citizens' band radio transmissions and weather and navigation transmissions.

Although the Wireless Telegraphy act dates from 1949, it has been updated often and is a living piece of legislation. Section 5 of the Act which refers to the interception and disclosure of messages is just as valid today.
However, we do take a relaxed attitude to the use of scanners by, for example, aviation enthusasts and do not generally take action for their use. Nevertheless, many transmissions are private so I hope you can appreciate that we cannot give an official general relexation.

Yours sincerely

   Doug Raynes
   Operations - Enforcement & Interference Policy


 I hope this might help..Ive outlined in red the sentence I think is important.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Steve
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dave
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2004, 09:07:18 AM »

So this would seem to indicate that *you* can listen to the broadcasts.  But what about broadcasting those aviation transmissions on the Internet?  His email doesn't deal with that issue.  Which leaves me more confused than ever.

Happy New Year...hoping we can find an answer.

Dave
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Polehill
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2004, 09:21:58 AM »

Dave..Ive sent an e-mail asking for clarification of this question.
Please remember to vist me after they have dragged me off to be imprisoned in the Tower of London for being so impertinent!!!
best regards
Steve
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dave
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2004, 10:52:00 AM »

Quote from: Polehill
Dave..Ive sent an e-mail asking for clarification of this question.
Please remember to vist me after they have dragged me off to be imprisoned in the Tower of London for being so impertinent!!!
best regards
Steve


Steve-

Thanks for your efforts in getting the situation clarified.  Don't worry, mate, we'll bail you out.  smiley

HNY,
Dave
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Jane G
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2005, 03:59:27 AM »

Quote from: Polehill
Dave..Ive sent an e-mail asking for clarification of this question.
Please remember to vist me after they have dragged me off to be imprisoned in the Tower of London for being so impertinent!!!
best regards
Steve


Steve,

There would definitely need to be an official amendment to the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 before the department would ever openly allow aviation enthusiasts to listen to the airband. In cases such as yourself where you are listening to the transmissions for personal enjoyment (I'm assuming) then the Government simply couldn't be bothered pursuing you. But put up a UK ATC link on the net and that will soon attract their attention and force them to act. It's simply a cost v's benefit issue.

It's a terrible shame really as we would love to listen in to Heathrow traffic. Unless you organise or involve yourself with a lobby group then the Government will not pay any attention to you. I doubt that the Government really cares either way but it would involve substantial cost and effort in order to change the Act (which seems to have arisen due to WWII paranoia) and that is the crux of the matter.

Best of luck though,

Jane G
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Polehill
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2005, 02:22:21 PM »

Jane,

As you can see, I'm simply asking the appropriate department for their clarification of the matter.
I was involved years ago in the debate regarding CB in the UK, where the same tired arguments were trotted out, and eventually with enough pressure the law was changed..
So I'm just waiting for the response. As  for WW2 paranoia..well I can well understand the need for secure communications during those dark days..though I suspect the act having been enforced in 1949..it was more due to the developing Cold War that it was more related to.
watch this space!!!
Steve
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Polehill
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2005, 06:23:17 PM »

Well, here is the rather reproving reply I have received from the UK regulatory authority. I'm sure it clarifies totally the position of our supposedly open government. I'll make no further comment!!!

Dear Mr D
 
As I said in my previous email, although we take a relaxed attitude to the use of scanners by aviation enthusiasts it is, nevertheless, still an offence under Wireless Telegraphy legislation to receive aeronautical messages unless authorised to do so.
 
Making such messages widely available by broadcasting them over the internet, which I assume is the intention, is going considerably further than an individual simply listening to messages on a scanner. There is also a separate offence under the WT Act for disclosing information that has not been received under authority, which we regard as a more serious matter. These are not matters which we could condone and anyone in the UK passing on aeronautical messages over the internet would be liable to have enforcement action taken against them.  
 
Other countries may have different legislation in this respect but it is a matter of primary legislation in the UK which we presently have no intention of changing since it protects the privacy of many businesses and safety of life services' communications.
 
I hope this clarifies the position.
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odp1
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2005, 02:20:18 PM »

Smiley dear mr d
regarding the broadcast of atc from the uk over the net i have been an avid listener for many years on scanner and computer and understand the legal problems involved .the uk government is at best a little naive when it comes to the number of people that listen. you can listen to atc on dx tuners although there is a subscription (shame)
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danny999911
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 08:28:19 AM »

So annoying!

Strangly, the stream for Glasgow airpirt has been up for months:
http://www.selfcast.com/egpfgla
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crv
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2007, 10:45:15 PM »

Yes it is a shame there is no Heathrow feed.  Did my first trip in there this month after 34 years of flying around North America.  Absolutely excellent controlling and they are polite too!
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bassman1
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 12:36:39 PM »

Hi all .Newbie listener in N.Ireland here.I've just discovered this brilliant site within the last 15 minutes and on reading this thread I can only agree with the general concensus that in this day and age,broadcasting live ATC should be illegal.I can now monitor Dublin and Shannon,Ireland constantly now, and as Danny stated,Glasgow ATC has been available for some time now although I feel that this guy is broadcasting illegally and will continue only until someone blows the whistle on him.
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