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Author Topic: Comair Crash @ Lexington  (Read 7267 times)
Glavata
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« on: August 28, 2006, 02:50:31 AM »

Probably most have herd about this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/ap_on_re_us/kentucky_crash

Very sad. Anyone have audio from this incident? Or any input.
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thedude
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 12:26:50 PM »

After readign some various news reports and what not, and as most people haev probably seen, the plane took off on the wrong runway.


They took off on a 3500' runway instead of the 7000' one....obviously an aircraft such as the CRJ 200 requres little more than 3500'.


I believe that they tried to get it off the ground once they realized they were out of runway, but not having enough speed they were only able to fly via the "ground effect".

I think thats what happened at least.
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pjackson_ky
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 12:31:43 PM »

I live about 5 miles from the airport.  There was a light rain falling at the time of the accident.  I had heard a low rumble that I thought was thunder.  Didn't have the scanner on at the time, it was a little after 6 EST.

Based on all of the reports, the jet took off on the wrong runway.  They were cleared for takeoff for 22 and they attempted to take off from 26, a runway used for small aircraft and is 1/2 the length of 22.

A lot of local people were on that flight, it was a said day.

Paul Jackson - Central KY
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davys747
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 11:30:39 PM »

I don't understand how the controller did not notice?
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David Walsh
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frantzy
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2006, 12:52:38 AM »

My guess:  One controller doing everything...clearance, ground, tower...in the pre-dawn darkness, and probably cleared them for takeoff while they were still on the taxi roll (i.e. not sitting on the wrong runway).   
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pjackson_ky
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2006, 08:31:03 AM »

Frantzy

You are correct.  There was just 1 controller on duty at the time of the crash.  It is common for the aircraft to get clearance to takeoff on 22 while on the taxi roll.  They have now requested a 2nd controller in to tower in the evening hours.

They had just repaved the runway the weekend prior and had chaged the taxiway and starting location for 22. (moving it a little further down 22)  They had added buffer areas at both ends of the runway.  They have said this could have caused confusion and added to the problem.  They may request to shutdown and block runway 26.

They released info from the voice and flight controller late last night.  From the report, either the Captain or FO had commented about no lights on the runway but continued the takeoff.  It sounded like they were still unaware they were on the incorrect runway and proceeded as normal.  The Captain has called out "rotation" and that was the last comment on the recorder.

They are reporting this morning that the FO is in grave condition.

There was also another small plane crash in eastern KY. A twin engine aircraft, 7 on board and all lost.  This is not a good week for the Bluegrass State.

Paul Jackson - Central KY
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71sbeetle
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 11:24:41 AM »

that and the fact he was alone, working clearance, ground, tower and radar !!!!! the FAA said they had violated their own policy (separate controller for radar and gnd/twr)
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RobertK
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2006, 12:50:53 PM »

bad staffing .....FIRE that ATC
What a pile of horse-dung.
Without having any friggin' clue but what has been released so far, and, I think it is very fair to assume, without any real knowledge about a Tower controller's workplace, you jump to such a conclusion?

That's bad form if I have ever seen it.

Quote
that and the fact he was alone, working clearance, ground, tower and radar !!!!! the FAA said they had violated their own policy (separate controller for radar and gnd/twr)
I seriously doubt he also worked a radar position, as these usually are not even up in the tower.
The problem was there should have been two controllers in the tower alone, with the addition of a radar controller.

Regards,

Robert
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"You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it ... "
PHL Approach
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2006, 01:47:57 PM »

bad staffing .....FIRE that ATC

Don't talk out your ass. You have no idea what your talking about. It's not the controllers fault he was at the facility alone. You think he's the one that decided to be there alone. Yea thats it, he said "Let me schedule myself to be the only one there". You belong in FAA management you dope.
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dave
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2006, 02:07:38 PM »

Guys...please keep it civil.  Everyone should be able to get their point across without personal attacks. 

And to you armchair "experts" out there, please be sure of your *facts* before posting.  Idle speculation is just that...idle speculation.  And nobody will take you seriously, especially if you have no real information.

Thanks,
Dave
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 09:11:18 PM by dave » Logged
davolijj
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2006, 02:13:07 PM »

bad staffing .....FIRE that ATC
I'll agree with the bad staffing part...

I seriously doubt he also worked a radar position, as these usually are not even up in the tower.
The problem was there should have been two controllers in the tower alone, with the addition of a radar controller...

Actually this is not uncommon in the United States.  Overnight controllers at smaller facilities routinely combine everything up to the tower cab and operate in a TRACab configuration.
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Regards
JD
RobertK
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2006, 03:57:31 PM »

Ray...do us a favour and refrain from posting in this topic until you get some facts straight and have something else on your mind than slinging mud.

So far you have not contributed a single line towards "how could we stop this from happen", merely belittled people you don't know, about actions you obviously have little insight about.

Regards,

Robert
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RobertK
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2006, 03:59:36 PM »

Actually this is not uncommon in the United States.  Overnight controllers at smaller facilities routinely combine everything up to the tower cab and operate in a TRACab configuration.
Okay, didn't know this.
At PPRUNE it has been mentioned that this may not have been the case at Lexington, and that the controller was not distracted by radar, but by "administrative duties".

Regards,

Robert
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digger
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 10:04:00 PM »

The way I understand it, radar and local were combined at the time, and the controller was busy with administrative duties.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2006, 12:03:55 AM »

The way I understand it, radar and local were combined at the time, and the controller was busy with administrative duties.

This is a quote by the NTSB investigator from the NY Times.

The safety board member, Deborah Hersman, said Wednesday that in addition to his ground duties, the controller had radar responsibilities, including telling the crew of an American Eagle plane that was 3 minutes and 12 seconds ahead of the Comair jet to change course to avoid bad weather. Ms. Hersman said the controller told investigators that after giving the takeoff clearance to the Comair jet, he began to take a count of traffic during his shift.

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