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Author Topic: CZYZ feed  (Read 19368 times)
Scrapper
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« on: December 20, 2006, 03:55:09 PM »

Hi guys... I know that we've probably already talked about this ad nauseum already but I'm getting really frustrated trying to listen to Toronto Centre, and all I hear is the local Toronto City Centre stuff... While I realize that both are very interesting to listen to (higher level stuff coming in and going out of and through Toronto, to Montreal and Ottawa and stuff as well as the city centre stuff and how they avoid the YYZ terminal area) it is absolutely RIDICULOUS to try and provide both on the same feed! The busiest airspace in Canada, and the feed has 15 DIFFERENT FREQS being scanned... It is impossible to hear the same plane more than once, or to follow a flight because it keeps switching from one frequency to another... As a perfect example I was listening to a departing Air Canada flight out of YYZ today, and had them beautifully on the tower, the terminal freq, and then when they switched over to toronto centre, I switched over, caught them checking in, then never heard of them for 20 minutes while I was forced to listen in to all the city centre schmoz... then I caught a gimpse of them switching to montreal centre prior to checking in with ottawa terminal... imagine if the NY area had all of JFKs tower, terminal and centre frequencies all on the same site! I hate to mank about this for minutes on end, but there's no point in having this many frequencies as it just makes it impossible to listen to ANYTHING... I would HIGHLY recommend splitting this into two different sites (one for city centre and one for the acc itself) to make it worth listening to... otherwise, might as well get rid of the whole thing because listening to 15 freqs at once is just retarded... sorry I'm all worked up, but you guys run an outstanding web site, so it's frustrating when one of your favourite listening streams is this screwed up...
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2006, 04:50:28 PM »

Firstly, realize that the majority of feeds here (perhaps 99% of them) are run by volunteers, not by the publisher of this site.  All hardware, OS software, and ISP costs are borne by the feeder out of their desire to give back to the world at large.  The site publisher simply hosts the feeds (it is worth mentioning that Dave also contributes an excessive amount of time and money to keep this site running, but that is another topic).

Secondly, as a volunteer feeder myself, I personally agree with you that too many frequencies on the same feed make the feed impossible to enjoy.  I also enjoy hearing the same aircraft "pass through the system," as it were.  Having less frequencies per feed also make it possible to catch the duration of aircraft emergencies, which can be some pretty intense, real-time drama.

With these points in mind, I have a suggestion for you:    Since a) you clearly prefer that feed (assuming it were split), b) the feeder of that site is providing the hardware and the Internet connection to get the feed to this site, and  c)  it would cost more money out of his pocket to separate the feed (additional scanner, additional sound card), perhaps you might work with the feeder to raise the needed funds to split the feed either through personal donations or a group of donations (say, contact a bunch of locals who enjoy that feed).

I feel your pain, but in the end it is volunteers like this feeder who make the site what it is.   As a vocal listener you may have to step up to the plate here, too, if you desire to see what you prefer.

Edit:  Added bolded word that was somehow removed by my editor.   Smiley
« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 05:14:30 PM by KSYR-pjr » Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Scrapper
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 05:07:23 PM »

absolutely agree with you about everything you said (including even stepping up to the plate if necessary), I guess the reason I was posting this on here is to see how many people might be interested in this, or to even just get a feel if the volunteer who runs that feed is even interested in splitting the feed or not... may not require any extra money though... if we can just figure out whether people prefer listening to city centre or to the high altitude stuff, it may not be a bad idea just to get rid of one of the two all together and go back to the way it used to be (centre only... city centre airport was added on more recently and ever since has made the feed very difficult to listen to...) if there are enough people out there that agree with me, maybe the volunteer wouldn't mind dropping the city centre feqs all together...

On another note, I want to dispel the misunderstanding that I am unhappy with the service... I think dave and his guys run a great site and all on their own time, and mostly out of their own pocket... the volunteers who provide the feeds do a great job as well... I'm just making a suggestion to see 1) whether enough people agree with me, and 2) whether the feed provider is willing to talk about some alternatives so that we can all enjoy the feed more... perhaps have centre stuff one week and city centre stuff the next, and then let people decide which they like better... since we already have a toronto terminal feed, my vote is for centre instead of city centre airport... that way, like you said, you can hear aircraft coming into toronto from over 100 miles away as they're decending through the various airspaces until they reach terminal then tower, then land... Not sure who provides this feed, but I'm basically asking that we open a dialogue amongst all us listeners and come up with a BETTER way of doing this... if it envolves more money, then I'm sure that people (including myself) might be willing to help out with the money... however, if not that many people are interested in one vs. the other, then extra money not needed... just need to get rid of the extra freqs...

Looking forward to talking more about this with anyone out there (including hopefully the feed provider...)
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JetScan1
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 05:19:00 PM »

I totally agree with the first poster, it just doesn't make sense loading up a lot of busy frequencies on one radio, as you point out the feed becomes very frustrating to try and listen to. It's not just the CYYZ feed either, unfortunately there are few other feeds with the same frustrating problem. Why go through all the trouble of setting up a feed and then ruin it by adding so many frequencies ? My only guess is the person who set up the radio doesn't really understand how the airspace is set up, or that some people just like to listen to what ends up sounding like a bunch of random transmissions ?

DJ
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Yegger
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 05:44:16 PM »

It's not just the CYYZ feed

The CYYZ feed is okay in my mind; it was previously discussed. I believe it's six frequencies, north/south tower, arrival, and departure; only four are generally used. 

It must be Toronto Centre (CZYZ) of which you're speaking, and it is indeed scanning many frequencies and the feeder may want to consider dropping some of these.  I know he added the YYZ tower/arrival/departure frequencies while the normal YYZ feed was having problems, occasionally one hears these transmissions.
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Scrapper
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 10:21:20 PM »

Adrian, you're absolutely correct, the YYZ feed is perfect, but the ZYZ feed is not only ZYZ but also Toronto City Centre... adding an airport to an already busy ACC is ridiculous... hopefully the feeder is on here and is reading this... if so, maybe the feeder can join this conversation so we can come up with a better list of freqs to listen to... Toronto City Centre Airport doesn't really have anything to do with the ACC so I'm not sure why it was added to this feed in the first place...
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Tom56
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 12:06:55 PM »

Ok OK No need to get your knickers in a knot!  grin When I took over CZYZ I was given a list of Freq's by the original feeder. The extra ones at the bottom for CYTZ, CYKZ and CYZD have been locked out for ages. I just forgot to get Dave to remove them. Since I'm not that versed in what Freqs I should have on CZYZ or even CYYZ. Please do give me a list if you have one. I don't have a problem fixing things up for you all it would be my pleasure.  tongue evil wink grin
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bcrosby
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WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2006, 03:17:58 PM »

Would you be able/willing to host an additional scanner? I have a spare one lying around that can be used if you want to split the feed.
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Yegger
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2006, 02:33:10 AM »

CZYZ Centre Frequencies:

http://www.canairradio.com/yyzacc.html
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JetScan1
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2006, 09:21:56 PM »

Quote
Since I'm not that versed in what Freqs I should have on CZYZ or even CYYZ. Please do give me a list if you have one. I don't have a problem fixing things up for you all it would be my pleasure.

Are you running both feeds ? My suggestion for the CZYZ (Center) feed would be to concentrate on the enroute Center frequencies only, just listening now it sounds like you have some Tower and Terminal frequencies in there, when these are already covered on the other CYYZ feed.

If it was me I'd scan the following ONLY on the CZYZ feed.

127.000
124.925
124.675
134.575
135.625
120.175
125.775
134.925
132.575 

This gives you coverage of all adjacent low sectors and the high sectors overhead YYZ. I'd turn all delays OFF and make sure no priority channels are set. Just my opinion. Any chance you could set that up as a test and we can see how it works ? DJ
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 09:32:23 PM by JetScan1 » Logged
Scrapper
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2006, 11:54:45 PM »

jetscan, I didn't realize you posted here already, disregard my other post re the delays... Those adjacent sectors and high altitudes sound interesting... let me know if you guys test this, I'd like to listen and offer my 2 cents... but it should be much less busy without the terminal and tower freqs that we keep overhearing... Those bottom freqs that are supposed to be locked out are not locked out I don't think, because I'm sure I heard toronto city centre clearing planes to land the other day... I'd really like to see the freqs jetscan suggested tried out if that's at all possible... and if it works then those freqs should be the only ones scanned if you only have one scanner (because CYYZ is a busy feed of terminal stuff, so it would be fun to have a feed of the adjacent and overhead enroute stuff... great for following flights as well..). Then if you DO acquire a second scanner, you could think of adding the toronto city centre stuff to that one if there's interest in those as well, but if not I would just leave those out all together for now... Don't know if I'll get a chance to post tomorrow or not, just arrived to visit my in-laws for the next couple of days, so if not, merry xmas to everyone and happy holidays...
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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2006, 11:05:27 AM »

Let's make that list an even 10 frequencies by adding 132.475 to the list. grin
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Scrapper
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2006, 03:11:06 PM »

My only other concern is that with NO delay, it's going to jump from one conversation to another... whereas with just a minimum amount of delay, when the scanner picks something up, at the end of the conversation, it'll stick around for the response... with no delay, it'll start scanning again right away and pick up something on another freq and we'll miss the response...
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JetScan1
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2006, 09:39:54 AM »

Quote
Let's make that list an even 10 frequencies by adding 132.475 to the list.

I missed that one, 132.475, as well as 124.025.

127.000
124.925
124.675
134.575
135.625
120.175
125.775
134.925
132.575 
132.475
124.025

If we could get ONLY these 11 frequencies set as a test, with no delays and no priority channels set, that would be great. It's way too many frequencies for one radio, ideally to do CZYZ justice you would need 4 separate radios dedicated to specific sectors/areas like north/south/east/west and high/low etc. But with only one radio available I guess it becomes a compromise between aircraft coverage vs area coverage.

Quote
My only other concern is that with NO delay, it's going to jump from one conversation to another... whereas with just a minimum amount of delay, when the scanner picks something up, at the end of the conversation, it'll stick around for the response... with no delay, it'll start scanning again right away and pick up something on another freq and we'll miss the response...

I agree about the missed reply thing, but I find if that is a continual problem it probably means you are scanning too many frequencies. I find with the delay set you end up getting a lot of clipped transmissions that you would otherwise hear or miss something entirely. DJ

 
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JetScan1
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2006, 09:56:34 AM »

This would be a CZYZ dream setup

Radio 1 - northeast (low/high)

124.925
127.000
124.675
134.575

Radio 2 - east through west low (low)

120.175
132.475
135.625

Radio 3 - overhead/east through west (high)

125.775
134.925
135.825

Radio 4 - west through north (low/high)

132.575
124.025
124.375
121.225

If anyone can provide the location, the internet connection and the PC, I'd donate the money to buy 4 radios.

DJ


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