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Author Topic: Fedex Crashes in Japan  (Read 16635 times)
Amante de Aviones
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« on: March 22, 2009, 07:47:47 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/japan.planecrash/index.html
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UAramper
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 07:56:18 PM »

Video of the crash.

 Warning, it was a bit graphic.

http://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye4089545.html

« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 07:59:30 PM by UAramper » Logged
Silenus
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 07:58:33 PM »

CNN has been showing video of it every now and then. Quite chilling. Looks like it came down too hard, because it bounces back up twice and on the second bounce it comes down hard enough to drive the tail down into the ground and it's completely lost from there.

I hope everyone made it out alright. The CNN anchor said it looked like one person got out of it, but they haven't released any further information yet.
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kea001
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 08:15:46 PM »


Shut the guy up in the background. "Oooowwwaaahhhhh".  huh

UPDATE: Looks like they did. Replaced the narration with a lady.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 08:37:19 PM by kea001 » Logged
UAramper
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 08:25:08 PM »

You would hope after the first bounce they tried to go around instead of touching down, bouncing up, then pushing the control column down to land again.
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Silenus
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 08:26:06 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7958367.stm

BBC is saying two crew members on board were killed. My thoughts and prayers go out to the friends and families of those involved.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 08:38:36 PM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29828648/

Here is a link from MSNBC. It's short, but the dialog is in english.
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Aircraft Mechanic
kea001
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 08:39:14 PM »

This flight, Fedex 80, goes to Anchorage then usually to Indianapolis.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX80
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2009, 08:42:26 PM »

http://www.airdisaster.com/news/article.php?id=49

Airdisaster.com isn't saying much yet either...

All that is known for sure is it was an MD-11F. No word on registration number yet.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 08:44:07 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 09:00:22 PM »

CNN is confirming two dead.  cry

Also saying high winds may have been a factor:
"According to observations at the airport, wind gusts were reported to be between 30 to 50 mph around the time of the crash."


http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/japan.planecrash/index.html
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cessna157
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 09:11:25 PM »

Wow, that video is incredible.  It appears that the mains touched down, and while the nose was coming down they got a huge gust of wind (or they were carrying way too much speed) and the aircraft became airborne again.  (I wonder if the lift dumpers even came out?)  Airborne again, with not enough flying speed, so the nose comes down hard, and it looks like the nose gear failed at this point.  Judging by the way the aircraft then rolled, I would guess the left MLG also failed.

I have seen Cessnas start porpoising and crash in this manner, but not an MD-11


You would hope after the first bounce they tried to go around instead of touching down, bouncing up, then pushing the control column down to land again.

At this point in the roundout, a go around is not an option.  The engines would have already been brought back to idle.  Had the crew applied power (and they may very well have), the engines wouldn't have spooled up until long after the nose hit the 2nd time, causing it to fail.

Low energy go-arounds are never recommended for turbine aircraft, due to engine spool time.  Taken from my aircraft's flight manual:

Low energy landing regime is defined as:
- Flaps and landing gear in the landing configuration
- Aircraft is in a descent
- Thrust has stabilized in the idle range
- Airspeed is decreasing
- aircraft's height is 50 feet or less above the runway elevation

The decision to place an aircraft in the low-energy regime is a decision to land.  If there is any doubt regarding the probability of a safe landing, a go-around must be initiated prior to entering this regime.  An attempt to commence a go-around or balked landing while in the low-energy landing regime is a high-risk, undemonstrated maneuver.

In the extreme case that such action is required, pilots must understand that ground contact is likely.  Any attempt to commence a climb before the engines have achieved go-around thrust may result in aerodynamic stall, loss of lift, roll off, and possible uncontrolled ground contact.  It is important to note that turbo-fan engines may require as long as eight ( 8 ) seconds to accelerate from idle to go-around thrust.  Because of this lag, normal "go-around" procedures cannot be employed until such time as go-around thrust is achieved.



Basically, the book says that once the power is back to idle, you're going to land, whether you like it or not.

I do know of one case where an airline that flies the same jet that I do had this exact scenario happen.  Gusty winds on approach.  Aircraft touched down hard, nose fell to ground, causing aircraft to become airborne again, with power at idle and decreasing airspeed.  The captain applied full thrust (non-fadec equipped engines on this model), but the aircraft impacted the runway 2 more times before engine response.  They declared an emergency and made an immediate traffic pattern to landing.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 09:27:16 PM »

I was going to say something along the same lines. Simply based on spool up time, a go-around at that point in time was out of the question. Even aircraft in flight in approach configuration will struggle to climb, even after TOGA has been initiated. I'm reminded of Delta 191 in Dallas, L-1011 landing in a thunderstorm. Encountered a microburst containing windshesr. On the CVR, you can hear the Captain yell "TOGA!" and you hear the engines spool up, but it was too late. The aircraft bounced down short of the field on a road, back into the air, and finally collided with a giant water tank.

Below is a link to the CVR from Delta 191:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/MP3s/rcvrdel191.mp3

And here is the text version if anyone is interested:

 http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr850802.htm
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 09:42:14 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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frantzy
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 10:56:16 PM »


Also saying high winds may have been a factor:
"According to observations at the airport, wind gusts were reported to be between 30 to 50 mph around the time of the crash."



RJAA 222230Z 30018KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1001 WS R34R TEMPO 31020G30KT RMK 1CU030 A2959 2218 MOD TURB BLW 500FT ON FNA RWY34R B767
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EdGeneer
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 12:22:14 AM »

Whats interesting, is on a couple of the youtube videos, there are folks commenting that seem to have many hours of experience flying the md11s and admit to the interesting balance issues on landing that would make wind gusts and windshear a huge hazard as opposed to other heavy a/c such as a 747 which does not seem to 'porpouse' as bad. Especially when spoilers and reversers are deployed.

But, sad, nonetheless. My prayers go out to their families....
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joeyb747
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 06:55:32 AM »

Here is the latest from my ISP:

"We have information that strong winds caused the plane to divert from the runway," a Narita Airport spokeswoman said.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20090322/INTERNATIONAL-US-JAPAN-PLANE/

This leaves a grey area...was it a gust or a windshear? If I'm correctly reading frantzy weather reprot above, it indicates windshear by the "WS". It also says "Moderate Turbulance Below 500FT On Final Approach, Runway 34R."


It's been a while since I've read one of these...please correct me if I'm reading it wrong!

« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:57:08 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

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