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Author Topic: indianapolis atc  (Read 8521 times)
davolijj
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MMAC ARSR OKC


« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2008, 02:05:21 PM »

Good point.  And I if I recall, you wouldn't tell me either.  I had to go ask another member of the "old guy" club to get the answer.

And as for the spring chicken comment, I was really just trying to make PJ feel better. wink
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 02:09:56 PM by davolijj » Logged

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JD
mk
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 12:19:19 AM »

Because controllers are lazy. And visual approaches are real easy to do. And you can do more ops per hour doing the visual approaches versus the ILS and such. Visual Separation is a great tool for controllers!!

disagree...you often talk twice as much pointing out aircraft to other aircraft to follow.  it takes some work off of the controller b/c you don't have to space a/c that are landing parallel runways (depending on how close the runways are).   Also a C560(small) can land 3 or 4 miles behind a heavy versus the 6 miles a controller shall provide on an instrument approach.   

you still have to have enough room for the first a/c to get clear of the runway...which is why nextgen is a rediculous "tool" that have plp who don't control believeing it will save the NAS.  who cares if it reduces separation???  there will always be wake turbulence, and there will always be delays until we build more runways. end of rant on nextgen
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davolijj
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2008, 09:40:38 AM »

disagree...you often talk twice as much pointing out aircraft to other aircraft to follow.  it takes some work off of the controller b/c you don't have to space a/c that are landing parallel runways (depending on how close the runways are).   Also a C560(small) can land 3 or 4 miles behind a heavy versus the 6 miles a controller shall provide on an instrument approach.

Where are you coming up with this?  As far as I can tell 6 miles is ALWAYS the minimum for a small landing behind a heavy without exception:

7110.65S  5-5-4
f. TERMINAL. In addition to subpara e, separate an aircraft landing behind another aircraft on the same runway, or one making a touch-and-go, stop-and-go, or low approach by ensuring the following minima will exist at the time the preceding aircraft is over the landing threshold:

NOTE-
Consider parallel runways less than 2,500 feet apart as a single runway because of the possible effects of wake turbulence.


1. Small behind large- 4 miles.

2. Small behind B757- 5 miles.

3. Small behind heavy- 6 miles.
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JD
MIAMIATC
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2008, 10:25:35 AM »

I dont know if this is being followed here in TPA but RWY 18L/18R are less than 2500 feet apart and landings are simultaneously operated  on each runway at a half a mile spacing.
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NWA ARJ
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 12:35:36 AM »

Because controllers are lazy. And visual approaches are real easy to do. And you can do more ops per hour doing the visual approaches versus the ILS and such. Visual Separation is a great tool for controllers!!

disagree...you often talk twice as much pointing out aircraft to other aircraft to follow.  it takes some work off of the controller b/c you don't have to space a/c that are landing parallel runways (depending on how close the runways are).   Also a C560(small) can land 3 or 4 miles behind a heavy versus the 6 miles a controller shall provide on an instrument approach.   

you still have to have enough room for the first a/c to get clear of the runway...which is why nextgen is a rediculous "tool" that have plp who don't control believeing it will save the NAS.  who cares if it reduces separation???  there will always be wake turbulence, and there will always be delays until we build more runways. end of rant on nextgen

Maybe that happens at the aiport you work at, but where I work we dont have parallels, I sequence them to the airport, point out the traffic, follow that traffic Cleared visual apprach Runway 36. Its pretty slick where I work at. It may require some more work at the bigger airports.
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Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
nd0725
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 10:41:32 PM »

most of the time when i try to listen at night it is down
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IndyTower
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 11:16:42 PM »

most of the time when i try to listen at night it is down

Yeah my ISP has been down for a few days...haven't had enough time away from work to call to get it fixed...hope to do so within the next couple days.
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mk
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 10:41:31 PM »

disagree...you often talk twice as much pointing out aircraft to other aircraft to follow.  it takes some work off of the controller b/c you don't have to space a/c that are landing parallel runways (depending on how close the runways are).   Also a C560(small) can land 3 or 4 miles behind a heavy versus the 6 miles a controller shall provide on an instrument approach.

Where are you coming up with this?  As far as I can tell 6 miles is ALWAYS the minimum for a small landing behind a heavy without exception:

7110.65S  5-5-4
f. TERMINAL. In addition to subpara e, separate an aircraft landing behind another aircraft on the same runway, or one making a touch-and-go, stop-and-go, or low approach by ensuring the following minima will exist at the time the preceding aircraft is over the landing threshold:

NOTE-
Consider parallel runways less than 2,500 feet apart as a single runway because of the possible effects of wake turbulence.


1. Small behind large- 4 miles.

2. Small behind B757- 5 miles.

3. Small behind heavy- 6 miles.

the discussion is about viusal approaches...that's when a small can land behind a heavy with less than 6.  i know the rules...use them everyday.   and the reference to the parallel was because at certain airports like SFO for example, the runways are less than 2500' apart.  so, even though two airplanes may be landing on different runways (27L, 27R)  one must report the other in sight in order to visual approaches if you're gonna be less than the standard separation minima.
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mk
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2008, 10:46:03 PM »

NWA ARJ,

i agree, when it's not super busy or at smaller airports, it makes it so simple.  our final controller also sequences for a smaller class D airport and i just aim the arrivals for the D airport at the runway and they do all the other work. haha  Meanwhile i'm talkin my a$$ off sequencing for the major airport.
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