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Author Topic: jet blue landing at LAX  (Read 28901 times)
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2005, 11:54:17 AM »

There were some excellent observations brought up by someone in the aviation newsgroups.  

Why didn't the LAX airport rescue squad immediately jack up the Airbus nosewheel before letting anyone exit the front door and mill around the nose of the aircraft?   Supposedly there were a handful of people wandering underneath the nose of the aircraft as passengers exited the aircraft.

Also, why didn't the same group have a few stair vehicles available to utilize more than just the one front door after the aircraft came to a stop?

(not my observations, but they seem very astute to me)
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
deverette
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2005, 12:39:58 PM »

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I am only a GA pilot, so take this for what its worth: In the GA world, we are constantly drilled with the concept that once an emergency occurs, the aircraft is owned by the insurance company. In other words, do what needs to be done to save the people; do not do something silly to endanger the people by attempting to save the aircraft.


Peter, don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate and understand the Captain's (PIC's) responsibilities. The basis for my question can be said that taking steps to keep the airplane intact is inextricably linked to passenger safety. I wasn't thinking about shutting the engines down on short final, since you're still not committed to the landing (he could have even put the mains on the ground, and still aborted the landing). I was thinking once the Captain decided "this is it", then kill them. Again, I'm not familiar with the A320 systems or the peripheral consequences of any of the things I mentioned. I'm just trying to get some insight on the actual decision-making process that is going on.

Quote
Why didn't the LAX airport rescue squad immediately jack up the Airbus nosewheel before letting anyone exit the front door and mill around the nose of the aircraft? Supposedly there were a handful of people wandering underneath the nose of the aircraft as passengers exited the aircraft.


When I saw a bunch of people walking around the nose gear assembly of the plane when it was down, I thought the same thing. I was saying to the TV "Uhhh, DUH, that support which is holding that multi-ton airplane above your head has just been subjected to incredible stresses it wasn't specifically designed for..." Guess those guys haven't spent any time around/near/working with suspended loads..

Ahh well..
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-Dan Everette
frantzy
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2005, 01:18:33 PM »

Quote from: PHL_Approach
Brian, this is not a forum where we start arguments or flaming etc, keep it either on A.net or the Vatsim.net forums.


...which to me is the BEST aspect of the LiveATC forums.  It's such a pleasant change from so many forums these days.

Mike
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tyketto
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2005, 01:26:27 PM »

Quote from: frantzy
Quote from: PHL_Approach
Brian, this is not a forum where we start arguments or flaming etc, keep it either on A.net or the Vatsim.net forums.


...which to me is the BEST aspect of the LiveATC forums.  It's such a pleasant change from so many forums these days.

Mike


And to be honest, it doesn't even belong on the VATSIM forums. Leave the advocacy stuff to A.net alone..

BL.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2005, 03:01:45 PM »

I agree with you Brad, but Brian seams to throw stuff like that out on the Vatsim forums "often". There is no stopping that on that forum anyway, it will continue.  angry
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MSN ATC
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2005, 05:07:42 PM »

Did anybody else notice that while the tires were burning off, the flames were much more pronounced whenever the nose gear was going over one of the center stripes? Flames were not nearly as bad on raw pavement.  Watch the video. Wonder what would cause that.
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Madison, Wisconsin ATC
bschott
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2005, 08:16:59 PM »

(not commenting on the flames and backhanded comments)

Personally I think the pilot did well, should get a bonus or something for that landing.  seems the liveatc server died during this event so the audio wasn't recorded.  Kinda sad, would have been great to have a record of that.
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tyketto
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2005, 08:37:23 PM »

Quote from: bschott
(not commenting on the flames and backhanded comments)

Personally I think the pilot did well, should get a bonus or something for that landing.  seems the liveatc server died during this event so the audio wasn't recorded.  Kinda sad, would have been great to have a record of that.


Also, take into account that the feed you're getting is based way out near Ontario! I personally know the guy that set up the feed. He's mainly covering Ontario, but he's high enough that he can cover Harbour, Manhattan, Stadium, Coast, Banning, Downey, Zuma, and part of Center. We'd be lucky if he did get LAX Tower. Unfortunately, he's just too far out. Hoepfully someone closer (like at In-n-Out) will set up a feed for LA Tower.

BL.
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bschott
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2005, 08:54:15 PM »

Quote from: tyketto
Quote from: bschott
(not commenting on the flames and backhanded comments)

Personally I think the pilot did well, should get a bonus or something for that landing.  seems the liveatc server died during this event so the audio wasn't recorded.  Kinda sad, would have been great to have a record of that.


Also, take into account that the feed you're getting is based way out near Ontario! I personally know the guy that set up the feed. He's mainly covering Ontario, but he's high enough that he can cover Harbour, Manhattan, Stadium, Coast, Banning, Downey, Zuma, and part of Center. We'd be lucky if he did get LAX Tower. Unfortunately, he's just too far out. Hoepfully someone closer (like at In-n-Out) will set up a feed for LA Tower.

BL.


That wasn't a flame at all directed to the guy. I said it seemed like the LiveATC server died from the traffic hitting it....it got swamped.  Nothing against anyone...just high traffic.  Please (and this isn't a putdown) look at my post first...it was just mentioning how it was sad that the server went down and we lost the recording. That's it.
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tyketto
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« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2005, 01:16:21 AM »

Quote from: bschott
That wasn't a flame at all directed to the guy. I said it seemed like the LiveATC server died from the traffic hitting it....it got swamped.  Nothing against anyone...just high traffic.  Please (and this isn't a putdown) look at my post first...it was just mentioning how it was sad that the server went down and we lost the recording. That's it.


Oh, by all means, please don't get me wrong! I know you weren't intending your post to be flaming.. If I came off that way, I apologise. I just wish that we had a feed that was closer to LAX tower. the SoCAL feed is great, don't get me wrong, but in this case, we were missing a lot when the emergency happened, because the feed was, like you said, way swamped that it tanked, and that the source of the feed was so far out.

We'll just have to get a feed down there.

BL.
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glonch
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2005, 08:57:59 AM »

Quote from: pweeden
Did anybody else notice that while the tires were burning off, the flames were much more pronounced whenever the nose gear was going over one of the center stripes? Flames were not nearly as bad on raw pavement.  Watch the video. Wonder what would cause that.


I saw that too.  Could it be when the pilot was applying (pumping) the brakes, hydraulic fluid was being pumped out and flaming up?
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2005, 09:20:28 AM »

Quote from: glonch
I saw that too.  Could it be when the pilot was applying (pumping) the brakes, hydraulic fluid was being pumped out and flaming up?


Too coincidental.  Smiley
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
MSN ATC
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« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2005, 10:13:02 AM »

It's gotta be something in the striping paint that made it flare up.  Maybe it's time for a $10M NTSB study on Runway Materials & Fire Safety.

ATC Content: Anybody ever figure out why this site melted down at the height of the drama?
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Madison, Wisconsin ATC
sam_nz
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« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2005, 10:55:03 AM »

Server overload?
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E&OE, I'm female, I'm learning, Bear with me.
tyketto
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2005, 12:35:17 PM »

Quote from: glonch
Quote from: pweeden
Did anybody else notice that while the tires were burning off, the flames were much more pronounced whenever the nose gear was going over one of the center stripes? Flames were not nearly as bad on raw pavement.  Watch the video. Wonder what would cause that.


I saw that too.  Could it be when the pilot was applying (pumping) the brakes, hydraulic fluid was being pumped out and flaming up?


It had to do with the chemicals used in the paint for the runway centerline.  Whatever was used in it certainly flammable. With this in mind, the Airport Authorities may have to investigate why it happened, and possibly go with another type of paint. That will be a bear, if they need to repaint every runway centerline/line for every field. It's that serious.

BL.
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