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Author Topic: JFK picture during rush hour  (Read 13997 times)
cessna157
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« on: June 19, 2008, 10:38:12 PM »

Was taxiing out tonight tonight in one of our beautiful CRJ900s, JFK departing only on 13R, traffic was lined up double stacked on P and Q.  We were parked behind another one of our beautiful CRJ900s that we were going to follow most of the flight, and I thought I'd take a picture of the line for you guys.

Total taxi time was 1:25

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gksnoop05
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 11:12:53 PM »

thanks for the post! always good to put an image to what i'm listening to...
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NY Z Pilot
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 12:17:30 AM »

such a mess...

love the 900's   air shuttle?
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cessna157
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 10:00:23 AM »

Oh?!  I am offended at such an assumption.    afro
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philip
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 01:08:45 PM »

whoa...and I see BA767 most likely BA1502 to manchester my home town Cheesy
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 05:27:16 PM »

Oh?!  I am offended at such an assumption.    afro

I think everyone would be offended at that. I sure am.  shocked
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2008, 07:37:59 PM »

That South Africa plane over there, what kind of plane is that???

Is that an A340?
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cessna157
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 07:45:31 PM »

Yeah, I believe that was Springbok 204 if I'm finding the correct flight.

And for the earlier post, no Mesa fly for me thanks.  The picture was taken from COM637, with COM469 just ahead of us.

Next time I fly out of JFK or LGA during rush hour, I'll bring my digital camera and take some better pics (this picture was from my cell phone)


Oh, and yes, that's an A340.  Looks like a -300
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 09:06:24 PM by cessna157 » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 09:12:42 PM »

Thanks for sharing!

MB
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athaker
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 02:22:47 AM »

I can't wait to see some jfk rush hour pictures!  There are a few on aviation photo websites but cessna, i doubt any of them will match yours.
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 10:52:25 PM »

Cessna,

what number were you guys in line?

i counted up the planes on the other taxiway, and i for sure counted at least 9 there, plus im sure many more in front of them, plus the guys in line on ur taxiway.  lol

-NAplaya
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supee2
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2008, 12:35:24 AM »

I'm pretty sure that lineup is the result of the tower being evacuated because of a fire this evening. Here's the story: http://tinyurl.com/56jdd4

While listening in, I heard reference made to the evacuation for a "fire drill, shall we say."
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NY Z Pilot
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2008, 07:12:11 PM »

operations werent affected? BS...
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rpd
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 11:07:49 PM »

I don't think the tower evacuation thing yesterday was a factor since the photo was taken on June 19.
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Fryy
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 04:40:59 AM »

cessna, im curious how many hours you had at the time you were hired by comair? did you fly for anyone else prior?
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cessna157
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 12:12:10 PM »

Cessna,
what number were you guys in line?
i counted up the planes on the other taxiway, and i for sure counted at least 9 there, plus im sure many more in front of them, plus the guys in line on ur taxiway.  lol
-NAplaya
Ha, I honestly did't have enough fingers and toes to count where we were in line.  That picture, taken from my cellphone, doesn't accurately portray how many were actually in line.  It was our line's turn for departure, and I think there were about 20ish in front of us (we were way back just past twy N) plus the other line on the right side was just lining up, so there probably was just as many over there too.  Overall it took us just shy of an hour and a half from time of pushback to wheels up.


I'm pretty sure that lineup is the result of the tower being evacuated because of a fire this evening. Here's the story: http://tinyurl.com/56jdd4
While listening in, I heard reference made to the evacuation for a "fire drill, shall we say."

No, this was a good day at JFK with things running quite smoothely. 

cessna, im curious how many hours you had at the time you were hired by comair? did you fly for anyone else prior?

Interviewed Jan '07 and had just over 700 hours, 75 of which were multi, but 30 of those multi were already in a jet (let's just call that my lucky break).  I had already been with the company for 3 1/2 years working as a hub coordinator, ramp controller, deice controller, systems tester, certified aircraft tower, and several other special projects, so I had quite a knowledge of how the airline operated before I even started flying for us.
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 04:08:20 PM »

Haha dude, thanks for the pic!  I was in that line somewhere.  I flew on jetBlue 173 JFK-SJC on June 19 which put me in line around the same time your pic was taken.  First it took 30 minutes just to push from the gate as ATC had issues giving out clearances and then the extra hour+ in line for takeoff.  After the first 30 minutes or so of slow taxiing, the crew informed us that they had two lines for departure and their best estimate was that we were number 28 for departure.  Two queues, one emptied at a time...first time flying out of JFK.  Is that a normal day?!
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cessna157
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 08:07:59 PM »

Two queues, one emptied at a time...first time flying out of JFK.  Is that a normal day?!

Yeah, that was a pretty normal day for JFK during rush hour.  Go there at about 10-11am and the place is a ghost town.

The 2 queue line (yes I know, that can be redundant, but it sounds good in my head) system works quite well at JFK.  They use it departing 13R (lines on P and Q) and 22R (lines on C and 13L).  It allows the ground controller to sequence everyone early (13R: A/B/N/P/Q intersection and 22R: A/B/V intersection) to get the line going, stack them up down a taxiway and have everyone shut down their engines while they wait for the other queue to empty.  Below is a link to the JFK taxiways.  The picture was taken from Twy P at the bend just NW of Twy N facing NW.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0806/00610AD.PDF
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 08:27:26 PM »

east coast is pretty much shut down tonight... there were "no routes to put them on"
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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2008, 03:57:31 PM »

Very cool pic. That would be awesome if you can get some more.
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 09:55:53 PM »

Cessna, I think it's hilarious that you took this picture with a cellphone! haha! I KNEW the turn your cell phone off thing was just bogus! (just messing around).

On a more serious note though, how do you guys factor in the wait times for the amount of fuel you take for the flight? (ie. how do you know how much fuel to give yourself for the taxi portion of your flight? is it just best guess based on an estimate you get from somewhere or what? I know more or less how you guys calculate fuel for flight to destination, approach, then alternate airport, etc. but what about the taxiing?)
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cessna157
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 10:12:37 PM »

Cessna, I think it's hilarious that you took this picture with a cellphone! haha! I KNEW the turn your cell phone off thing was just bogus! (just messing around).

Actually, believe it or not, they can screw up some of our systems.  Sometimes we can hear it in our headsets if the person is sitting near the receiver for the radios.  But also cellphones will drive our radar altimeters crazy, and if they start having fits on the ground, it starts generating caution messages for the spoilers, etc.  Gets messy.  But on flights with long taxi times we'll make a PA with a timeframe for takeoff and let the pax know they can use their cell phones and we'll give them a 10 minute warning before takeoff to shut them back down (partially to make sure we don't get any more caution messages)

On a more serious note though, how do you guys factor in the wait times for the amount of fuel you take for the flight? (ie. how do you know how much fuel to give yourself for the taxi portion of your flight? is it just best guess based on an estimate you get from somewhere or what? I know more or less how you guys calculate fuel for flight to destination, approach, then alternate airport, etc. but what about the taxiing?)

Yeah, without going into the boring details, here's the various categories of our required fuel:
Reserve + burnoff + contingency + alternate = Min fuel for takeoff + taxi + extra = Min fuel at the gate

Reserve = the standard 0:45 IFR fuel per the FARs (we never get this low)
burnoff = the amount of fuel we should burn from the time we takeoff to the time we land
contingency = added fuel due to weather deviations, holding, traffic congestion  (we don't always carry cont. fuel, just usually flying into any major airports that usually have traffic delays, or if there is weather enroute)
alternate = fuel to fly to our IFR alternate airport if we have one  (if the weather is perfect, then we don't have an alternate, so we don't have any fuel for it either)
Min fuel for t/o = the absolute minimum fuel we have to have when we push the thrust levers up to takeoff
taxi = Fuel for taxi out (I'll get to more of this in a moment)
extra = Extra fuel for tankering purposes (buy the cheap gas in cities where we get a good deal on it so we don't pay high prices at the other cities


Taxi fuel will vary wildly with each airport we depart out of and times of day due to traffic.  On a normal day leaving a smaller city (LEX, GSO, BUF, etc) we will have 300 lbs of taxi fuel.  Moderate sized cities (CVG, MSP, ATL, BOS, etc.) usually have 480 lbs of fuel.  The larger airports are where the taxi fuel varies.  JFK at 10am might have a taxi fuel of 600 lbs, and at 6:30pm might have 1300 lbs.  Our dispatchers are the ones who work up all of these numbers.  Obviously there are defaults in the system that automatically recommend fuel loads, but they can change it with the click of a button.  Then, as a crew, we can also add more fuel on if we wish.  We obviously cannot go below the min for takeoff without working it out with our dispatcher first.

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you guys have any other Qs
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 10:51:08 PM »

Cessna, I think it's hilarious that you took this picture with a cellphone! haha! I KNEW the turn your cell phone off thing was just bogus! (just messing around).
Hope this helps.  Let me know if you guys have any other Qs

Do the 900's have two different style winglets? The newer 900's i've seen around seem to have more sweep than the older 900's or is this just a visual thing do to the different paint jobs?
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cessna157
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 09:37:52 AM »

Do the 900's have two different style winglets? The newer 900's i've seen around seem to have more sweep than the older 900's or is this just a visual thing do to the different paint jobs?


I think that is just a paint illusion.  The 900s have a different winglet than the 700s, 200s, and 100s.  It is more of a combination winglet/raked wingtip.  But I think it is the same on all of the 900s.  Ours all have the new paintjob, but from what I've seen with Skywest having older 900s they are the same.
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Ya man yeh ha


« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 11:03:21 AM »

Hello everyone not to brag but seen this before a few miles away in La Guardia
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