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Author Topic: Jimum renamed?  (Read 7643 times)
w0x0f
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2006, 03:36:17 PM »

The FAA is in the process of overlaying existing instrument approach procedures (ILS, VOR, NDB) with RNAV/GPS procedures.  The RNAV/GPS procedures have set minima for descent rates (about 317 feet per mile.)  The angle of the old approach may need to change and there are certain parameters for the placement of the final approach fix on RNAV/GPS approaches.  The folks in Oklahoma City who design the instrument approach procedures sometimes have to move the final approach fix to coincide with the new descent rates which did not previously exist for ILS approaches.  You need to bend your brain around this concept a bit, but the OKC designers have been doing it for the past few years.

So now when they move the fix, no matter how slightly they move it, the name must now change.  If the BUF controllers have a strong attachment to the old name, like for example the PIT controllers did for WIILE and STARG for Willie Stargell on ILS 10R http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00570I10RC3.PDF when these changes occurred at PIT, then the old name can be held in reserve and used again after the 56 day charting cycle.  All charts and aircraft databases are updated at least every 56 days.

Simple, huh?

w0x0f
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ogogog
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2006, 03:46:15 PM »

iam not sure what the name of it is but their is a computer that is incharge  of keeping track of fix names and also issuing new ones.this is so fixes of similer letters and sound are not in the same or close to each other.example years ago probely late 80 early 90s their was an approach fix at grissom afb called PAPPY.the arrival fix for ord from the north east is PAPPI. wouldnt you know we had a usaf kc135 flying to GUS in our airspace and requested direct PAPPY,our controller cleared him PAPPI.i got the a/c a short time later and noticed his track was off for direct PAPPI and i questioned him about it . it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened,i belive a change was made a short time later to corect this.check out the PMM arrival for ord the holding fix was named PIVOT get it "cleared to pivot" more controller humor.i figure when the original ILS32 was terpsed no one requested any names and the computer just doled out what you saw in the orginal plate.you are corect you just request a change to the office in charge and if if meets their spec the change usally goes in on the next data change,but not sure how long it takes to go through the prosess.

og/atcs
c90
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w0x0f
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2006, 08:37:45 AM »

og is correct about the computer spitting out the names.  There is a problem that the AVN office (TERPS people in OKC) have recognized for a few years and will become true very soon.  They are running out of pronouncable 5 letter names with the proliferation of RNAV procedures.  You can thumb through some of these current procedures and ask yourself, "How do I pronounce GNZNT?"  But this is a serious problem.  

They have looked at different naming conventions.  It will probably come from using a worldwide grid system with combinations of letters and numbers similar to an x,y axis but a little bit more complicated.  One of the earliest prototypes was designed by 2 controllers from Boston Center.  It was called SNARS.  I think that stood for Satellite Navigation Aviation Reference System.  Don't quote me on that one.
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dan9125
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WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2006, 02:27:21 PM »

Thanks for the great info guys, i learned alot about the renaming process. I'll let you know if i get a tour of Buffalo!

  Dan
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2006, 05:08:01 PM »

OK, Dan, last Monday evening while flying into Buffalo I asked the approach controller why the change occurred.  He stated that it was at the local controllers' requests that the FAA did so and that it made things easier for the controllers to have intersections named after the towns below them.

If you want to hear the audio of the exchange, download the Mon, April 17th BUF archive (18:00-18:30) and advance it to around the 19 minute mark (I didn't think this was important enough to create an audio upload here).  

My apologies to Ogogog.  Your initial posting style had me thinking you were not the experienced professional that your successive posts demonstrated.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
dan9125
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2006, 09:43:22 PM »

Sounds Like we put to much thought into this after all. They simply renamed it because the controllers ask them to! That sort of suprises me but what do I know!

 Dan
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ogogog
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2006, 07:22:26 PM »

experienced professional,man iam still laughing at that one but thanks anyways.

og/atcs
c90
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