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Author Topic: KJFK approach sectors?  (Read 9676 times)
Susan27
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« on: July 19, 2008, 09:18:42 AM »

Hi,

I am absolutely a rookie on the whole ATC stuff but love your page. When listeting to the KJFK ATC transmissions I noticed that there are several "channels/frequencies" for KJFK approach ATC:

a) Rober
b) Camrn
c) Rober/Sat
d) Final

1) I think that this could be different approach sectors into JFK. If so, could someone please explain where exactly those "approach sectors" are situated (North, south, west etc. of the JFK-airport etc.)? Is there something like a map?

2) Are there certain "rules" when each sector is used (beside of wind vectors)?

3) Finally: Does someone know where those names (Rober, Camrn etc.) come from (VORs, NDBs...)?

Thanks very much for your help! Smiley

Kind Regards from Germany

Susan
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Kind regards & have a nice day

Susan
dave
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 04:33:13 AM »

Susan-

Welcome to LiveATC.net.  It is great to see more and more participation here from Germany and other countries in Europe.

This is a reasonable reference for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_TRACON

I have not reviewed it 100%, but it appears to be a reasonable description of N90, certainly enough to get you started.

As to the sector names, sometimes they are named after arrival procedures (STAR's), sometimes they might be named after VORs, sometimes they are names of cities or locales (e.g., Boston has Rockport and Plymouth sectors) - it really varies from TRACON to TRACON.  There is no standardization at all regarding sector naming.

Hope this helps.

Dave
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JetScan1
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 01:25:04 PM »

Susan,

Quote
could someone please explain where exactly those "approach sectors" are situated (North, south, west etc. of the JFK-airport etc.)? Is there something like a map?

You can look at the charts the pilots use at this website:

http://skyvector.com/

Select JFK then in the right top corner you can further select the type of chart you want see (IFR, VFR, enroute, etc).

As far as JFK arrivals go, there are 3 arrival routes, called STARs, routing over the waypoints CAMRN (south), LENDY (west) and ROBER (east), which the sectors are named after. You can see the routes at these links:

http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?arrivals/PLYMOUTH%20ARR.gif

http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?arrivals/LENDY%20ARR.gif

http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?arrivals/CAMRN%20ARR.gif

Quote
2) Are there certain "rules" when each sector is used (beside of wind vectors)?

As a very basic overview the CAMRN sector controller on 127.400 is taking the arrivals over CAMRN (at 11000 feet or 9000 feet) and LENDY (at FL190), while the ROBER sector controller on 125.700 is taking the arrivals over ROBER (at 12000 feet). From there it depends on the runway configuration, but basically the CAMRN and ROBER sectors descend the traffic to between 4000 and 2000 feet then hand them off to the final approach controller on 132.400. When it's really slow one controller works all positions and when it gets really busy they add an additional final sector controller position (118.400).

DJ
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 01:31:02 PM by JetScan1 » Logged
Susan27
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2008, 04:03:37 AM »

@ Dave & DJ

Thanks very much for your kind help!

 cheesy

What I still dont understand:

What is the sector

"Satellite" or "ROBER-Sat" good for? I dont find this app-sector (STAR) on any chart mentioned above...For what kind (or simply when) of approaches is this sector used?

Thanks again!

Best regards

Susan
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 04:25:52 AM by Susan27 » Logged

Kind regards & have a nice day

Susan
Jason
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2008, 08:05:34 AM »

Hi susan,

ROBER satellite covers the "satellite" airports east of JFK.  For example, ROBER Sat. Provides service into FRG which is about 20 miles east. FRG is referred to as a satellite or non-major field compared to JFK.

Hope this helps!
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JetScan1
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2008, 01:08:14 PM »

Quote
For what kind (or simply when) of approaches is this sector used?

As far as I know (anyone more familiar please correct me) the Satellite sector is only open when JFK is landing runway 22L/22R and it's required due traffic volume for aircraft landing FRG, this Satellite sector is underneath the Final sector (132.400) and extends up to 2000/3000 feet. From the floor map you can see the frequency used is 118.400 which is also the same as the ILS monitor position, I've heard 118.400 in use during high traffic volume working finals for 13L when the other final on 132.400 was working finals for 22L. Normally the ROBER sector (125.700) handles FRG arrivals and I've never actually ever heard the Satellite sector in use, anyone know how often they actually open it ?

DJ
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Jason
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 01:21:59 PM »

From my experience flying the airspace, its not that often. Satellite is usually combined up with ROBER handling JFK arrivals and FRG traffic.  I believe you're correct in terms of when they staff the sector, busy pushes at FRG and/or when JFK is on the 22's.  Its technically an ILS monitor position, but also acts as a satellite sector to relieve ROBER when it gets busy. Camrnlendy will probably have the best info if he chimes in.
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JetScan1
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 04:43:11 PM »

Just listening this afternoon for a bit it sounds like JFK as changed some sector configurations around. Normally at this time (around 1600L/2000Z) they have a standard configuration running with arrivals over ROBER landing 22L and arrivals over LENDY and CAMRN landing 13L. With this setup 125.700 (ROBER sector) is taking arrivals over ROBER (at 12000) down to 4000/5000 then handing them off to 132.400 (Final sector) for final vectors to 22L, while 127.400 (CAMRN sector) is taking arrivals over LENDY (at FL190) and CAMRN (at 11000) down to 3000 then handing them off to 118.400 (Final sector) for final vectors to 13L.

Now it sounds like they are running almost all arrivals to 13L and changed the sectors around so that 132.400 has now taken over part of the CAMRN sector and is taking the arrivals over LENDY (at FL190) down to 7000 then handing them off to 127.400, while 125.700 is still taking arrivals over ROBER (at 12000) down to 7000 before handing them off to 127.400 as well. So 127.400 is working all arrivals - CAMRN (at 11000) and LENDY and ROBER (descending to 7000) - down to 3000 then handing them off to Final on 118.400 for final vectors to 13L.

I'm guessing this new setup has something to do with the recent incidents with traffic landing on 22L conflicting with departures off 13R, it sounds like 22L arrivals are now restricted when there are a lot of departures off 13R ?

DJ
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Susan27
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2008, 05:12:40 PM »

Thanks again for the interesting expl.! smiley

Kind regards

Susan
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Kind regards & have a nice day

Susan
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