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Author Topic: Missle Launch of CA Coast 11/8/2010  (Read 12844 times)
kq6cr
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« on: November 09, 2010, 02:11:52 PM »

Anyone aware of any ATC audio on this incident?
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rpd
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 02:23:50 PM »

Missles don't usually communicate with ATC.  smiley
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Chananya Freedman
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 03:32:25 PM »

Any info on where, who and why?
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73's KI6YIL
Chananya Freedman
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Hollis
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 03:41:00 PM »

The only feed is the KLAX tower. The time frame would be about 0030Z and beyond for 11/09/10 in the archives.
But look at what shows up on the map for the 0100-0130Z segment.
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Chananya Freedman
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 03:46:20 PM »

From Pt. Mugu?
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73's KI6YIL
Chananya Freedman
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alltheway
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 04:28:09 PM »

 cool calling Mythbusters  That image is taken at 00:53 UTC, so a minute before should be the launch...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 04:34:44 PM by alltheway » Logged
Chananya Freedman
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 04:33:25 PM »

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/mystery-missile-launch-los-angeles-no-threat-national-security.html
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73's KI6YIL
Chananya Freedman
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Chananya Freedman
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 04:41:16 PM »

From Brian Webb at the missile launch email list:

1. The launch of a small- or medium-sized solid fuel missile from
the Point
Mugu Sea Range, an established military test and training area
close to Los
Angeles used for live-fire tests of various types of missiles from San
Nicolas Island, surface ships, submarines, etc.

2. A jet contrail. This is a real possibility. Jet aircraft passing
through
the "contrail zone" produce vapor trails. The area off of the
California
coast is one of the busiest air traffic areas in the U.S. During
the cooler
months of the year, the contrail zone drops down in altitude and
often falls
into the same altitude range as that used by many jet aircraft.
Each year,
between October and April, I get asked if Vandenberg AFB had launched
something. These are almost always contrails. Depending on your
perspective,
a distant jet contrail can look like a climbing missile or launch
aftermath.

The video "looked" like a missile launch. However, I would need to
know if
the news helicopter camera used normal magnification or zoomed-in
to capture
the event. A telephoto view of a distant jet could look like a
missile.

The other important piece of information I would need to know is
whether a
Notice to Airmen or Notice to Mariners was in effect yesterday
afternoon. A
bit of caution here: In the past, the Coast Guard has had more or less
permanent warnings on the books about some areas possibly being
closed due
to missile firings. This is not what I would need to see. I would
want to
know if there was a unique NOTAM or Notice to Mariners issued for
that area
for yesterday.

Once I obtained a NOTAM, I would look at the header to see which
organization issued the notice (you often get a specific military
base or
unit).
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73's KI6YIL
Chananya Freedman
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alltheway
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 05:22:44 PM »

 huh I would call it a missile, but that cessna (I first thought a Chinook) had a clear view at his left side.... I could also see black smoke when the camera zoomed in next to the white chemtrail and above that a white heat source...

Can I steal a frame from that video or is it illegal?
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toeknee25
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 07:22:22 PM »

It probably was an aircraft contrail. Keep in mind that it was at sunset and an aircraft would glisten and look like a rocket engine at that time.
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JetScan1
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 09:43:56 PM »

It certainly looks like it could be an aircraft contrail.

Sunset in LA on November 8th was at 4:54 PST with official night time starting at 5:21 PST. From the video it appears to be after the sun has set (below the horizon). Looking at PASSUR flight data (link below) the only aircraft I could find that transitions high altitude airspace in the vicinity of the reported area is Alaska Airlines flight 225 a B737-900 at FL340 heading northwest from Mexico to SFO.

http://www4.passur.com/sna.html

Select November 8th at 17:00, Set scale at 85 miles, at 17:00 you will pick up ASA225 at the bottom of the screen about 10 miles off the coast, at 17:13 the aircraft is in the general area reported, the lighting conditions appear consistent with the time relative to sunset and official night time, the sun reflecting off the contrail appears to be consistent with the direction of flight.

DJ
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 10:09:54 PM by JetScan1 » Logged
iskyfly
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 10:10:30 PM »

it was a contrail;

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

and this was the aircraft;

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/USA808/history/20101108/1955Z/PHNL/KPHX

Nothing to see here.
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kyle172
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 01:20:57 AM »

I live near Cape Canaveral. This is a rocket, not a contrail, same similarities
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If you don't see it first then I probably will..
JetScan1
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 07:05:40 AM »

Quote
and this was the aircraft

Source ? The suns bearing at sunset was 250 degrees, AWE808 was heading eastbound, you would expect to see the sun reflecting off the right side of the contrail, from the video the sun is reflecting off the left side, also the helicopter reporter who filmed it said is was travelling in a westerly direction, other eye witnesses also reported that when looking west it was moving from left to right, more consistent with ASA225 which was northwestbound or maybe traffic climbing out of SAN ?

« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 07:27:29 AM by JetScan1 » Logged
iskyfly
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 09:59:10 AM »

I live near Cape Canaveral.
and?
Quote
This is a rocket, not a contrail, same similarities
wrong.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2010, 10:34:50 AM »

Quote
and this was the aircraft

Source ? The suns bearing at sunset was 250 degrees, AWE808 was heading eastbound, you would expect to see the sun reflecting off the right side of the contrail, from the video the sun is reflecting off the left side, also the helicopter reporter who filmed it said is was travelling in a westerly direction, other eye witnesses also reported that when looking west it was moving from left to right, more consistent with ASA225 which was northwestbound or maybe traffic climbing out of SAN ?


http://www.bahneman.com/liem/tmp/it_was_awe808.png
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iskyfly
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2010, 10:54:42 AM »

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/11/mystery-missile-is-probably-a-jet/

But to GlobalSecurity.org director John Pike, there’s an easy explanation: “It is obviously an airplane.”
“The aircraft is flying towards the observer; the air over the Pacific is clear, so the contrail is visible all the way to the horizon. This creates the optical illusion of a rocket flying up, rather than the actual situation of an airplane flying horizontally,” Pike tells Danger Room. “The object generating the contrail is moving too slowly to be a rocket; the contrail is not expanding as the ‘rocket’ gains ‘altitude’ — which would be the case as the exhaust plume expanding into less dense high altitude air.”
MIT astronomer Jonathan McDowell tells New Scientist pretty much the same thing. Although he does note that the Navy owns a missile target and launch facility at nearby San Nicolas Island.

This wouldn’t be the first time a plane was mistaken for a missile. On New Year’s Eve, an aircraft was photographed above San Clemente, California, looking eerily missile-esque. In December, 2008, there was a similar case of mistaken identity when a plane flew near the coastal town of Carmel.

“The short explanation is that we don’t see a lot of jet contrails head-on, especially from the vantage point of a helicopter. So, it looks like a missile to everyone else,” writes Danger Room alum (and New America Foundation analyst) Jeffrey Lewis. “But it probably isn’t.”

He adds, “That would explain why no one else in L.A. saw a missile launch other than the helicopter crew — or, rather, why everyone else from every other angle saw a typical jet contrail — and why [America's missile-warning system] didn’t light up like a Christmas Tree.”

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atcman23
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2010, 10:56:10 AM »

The only feed is the KLAX tower. The time frame would be about 0030Z and beyond for 11/09/10 in the archives.
But look at what shows up on the map for the 0100-0130Z segment.

The image here from the Doppler radar is very common around sunset and you'll see this in many areas close to sunset when the weather is clear.  The radar image is actually reflecting off of sunlight because of the angle that the radar is scanning and the angle of the sun relative to the radar (the radar in this case is at a 0.5 degree angle).  So no dice on picking up a "missile" here as this is a common occurrence with weather radar.

My guess is an aircraft contrail.
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Mark Spencer
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2010, 12:38:41 PM »

I live near Cape Canaveral.
and?
Quote
This is a rocket, not a contrail, same similarities
wrong.

LOL what do you mean? How can anyone argue with the phrase "same similarities"?
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mhawke
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2010, 12:44:20 PM »


The image here from the Doppler radar is very common around sunset and you'll see this in many areas close to sunset when the weather is clear.  The radar image is actually reflecting off of sunlight because of the angle that the radar is scanning and the angle of the sun relative to the radar (the radar in this case is at a 0.5 degree angle).  So no dice on picking up a "missile" here as this is a common occurrence with weather radar.

Radar can't reflect of sunlight.  The intereference is due to the sun shining directly into the radar's receiver.  The radar intreprets this as a return.  Since it is continuous it is interpreted as a straight line targer.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/mkx/?n=using-radar
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joeyb747
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 07:04:16 AM »

According to the vid linked below, this was not a rocket, but US Airways flight 808 from PHNL to KPHX...

http://www.comcast.net/video/officials-say-mystery-missile-a-plane/1639995563/Comcast/1639268311/
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2010, 09:02:34 AM »

Google "doppler sun spikes" for an explanation on the affect of the sun setting with doppler radar.   Sun spikes are real.
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KLVKFan
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 06:55:51 AM »

The Pentagon etc. are saying it was NOT a missile.....but a plane with an unusual comtrail
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