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Author Topic: Near miss above Boston...  (Read 3710 times)
java146
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« on: August 24, 2005, 01:19:42 AM »

Interesting listening...
It sounds like, from listening to Boston app/dep at about 12:15 this morning, that there was a near miss between a AA MD-80 and a BankAir(?) Lear jet.  The lear was climbing out to 6k and, I believe the MD-80 was headed down to the same altitude.    Seconds after the lear came up on the dep freq the controller started calling out the traffic at 2 miles, then 1 mile.  
     According to the pilot of the Lear, he had maintained 5k and visual seperation.  On the other hand, according to the pilot of the MD-80, it was 300ft!!  shocked   Both pilots were given phone numbers to call.

It probably wasn't as shocking as the runway incursion at BOS, but it scared the .... out of me just listening to it.  

Anyone know are these near misses are usually handled?  or past outcomes?

- Bill
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KCVG Feed Keeper
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IndyTower
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2005, 02:24:49 AM »

Here's a clip...

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757
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digger
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2005, 06:10:13 AM »

Take a look at http://www4.passur.com/bos.html. The only two aircraft in the sky, and they pass 600 feet apart...

BTW, I just found this BB the other day. Great site!   Cheesy
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Robin Rebhan
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2005, 04:32:22 PM »

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Take a look at http://www4.passur.com/bos.html. The only two aircraft in the sky, and they pass 600 feet apart...
 
     When I Played back the above Radar archive it showed AAL818 was straight and level at 6,000. The Lear Jet was climbing up to the AAL818. Playing the archive back the level of the Lear varies a little each time for some reason when they cross paths each time played back. The closest I got was 100 Ft seperation according to the transponders of both aircraft.

     Playing back the audio, The PIC for the Lear Jet was responsible for seperation. However the Controller should have directed the Lear jet to level off long before intersecting AAL818.

     And like the previous post stated - there were only two planes in the sky on KBOS radar! - So much for the " Big Sky " therory.

     Robin Rebhan
     Who is now pricing the
     Anti collision Devices in Sporty's Catalog   shocked
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WILL WORK FOR FLIGHT TIME!
digger
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2005, 06:03:25 PM »

I made a little more detailed comment in the thread that contains the audio clip of this:http://www.liveatc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3211#3211 .

I played the radar depiction a number of times, and it was always the same.

I played both the audio clip and the radar depiction for my wife (a controller, who has worked at BOS tower, coincidentally), and she advises that everything was clean. Apparently, the philosophy at BOS is to expidite traffic, period, even if there are only two aircraft in the airspace. As long as the Lear had AAL in sight, and the controller had been told that, there was no violation of any sort. My wife suspects that the Lear pilot said he passed 1000 feet below AAL "for the tape", not because he was worried that *he* was in the wrong, but because he wasn't sure he hadn't gotten the controller in trouble.

Since she's my wife, it's my prerogative to disagree with her (as long as she doesn't find out).   wink

Personally, I still don't like the way the situation played out. Just because it was all legal by the book, doesn't mean it was done in the best judgement. The Lear had been given his turn to 270. He could have expedited his turn, or maintained 5000, or both, passing well below and behind AAL.

I can't imagine that the pilot was the only one on board the American  to be looking out the window. If the two aircraft passed close enough to bother the AAL captain, imagine how worried his passengers might have been. The behavior of aircraft in general these days draws more than its fair share of public suspicion, from both those on the ground and in the cabins. Why add to the the tension that already exists?
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