Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 22, 2014, 10:16:00 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: NEW Follow LiveATC updates on Twitter and Facebook


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Listener Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  NORTHWEST pilots miss landing strip
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: NORTHWEST pilots miss landing strip  (Read 16022 times)
chefnoel
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 182


« on: October 22, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/northwest-pilots-slumber-miss-landing-strip-wsj-2009-10-22


http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/22/airliner.fly.by/
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 06:34:35 PM by chefnoel » Logged
mhawke
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 106


« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 09:20:30 PM »

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA188/history/20091021/2135Z/KSAN/KMSP

There's the flight.  NWA188 from KSAN to KMSP on Weds.   The flightpath shows it well..


Logged
atcman23
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367



« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 12:25:13 AM »

Uhh yeah... "whoops."

Chalk up two for Delta this week.
Logged

Mark Spencer
joeyb747
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1583


Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 07:02:50 AM »

"The NTSB reported, that the crew told Air Traffic Control, that they had become distracted and had overflown Minneapolis and now requested to return.

The FAA reported, that according to post flight interviews the crew had engaged in a heated debate over airline policies and lost situational awareness."


from:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4219f00f&opt=0

Hmmm...engaged in a debate so deep that you don't hear radio calls for 80 minutes?   undecided
Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
Steelrman
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 07:57:22 AM »

There must be nothing worse than waking up and finding your co-pilot asleep. evil
Logged
laylow
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 124


« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 08:17:34 AM »

http://www.startribune.com/local/65619367.html?page=1&c=y
Logged
atcman23
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367



« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 09:50:06 AM »

"The NTSB reported, that the crew told Air Traffic Control, that they had become distracted and had overflown Minneapolis and now requested to return.

The FAA reported, that according to post flight interviews the crew had engaged in a heated debate over airline policies and lost situational awareness."


from:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4219f00f&opt=0

Hmmm...engaged in a debate so deep that you don't hear radio calls for 80 minutes?   undecided

Yeah I agree... something else happened here.  You can't be so caught up in a debate that you forget that you're flying an airplane.

Also ran across a poorly written AP article on the accident that suggested that they should have had 15 million warning signs that they were approaching the airport.  Ok, maybe not that many but they suggested that "cockpit displays, controllers trying repeatedly to reach, the city lights twinkling below" should have alerted them.  Besides controllers contacting them (you would think they would hear someone else talking to them), I don't think the "cockpit displays" would have helped much (nothing jumps out and says "APPROACHING MINNEAPOLIS") and looking outside doesn't do much good at 37,000 feet.  Besides it was night time and just because Minneapolis may look bright on the ground doesn't mean it does way up in the air.  And if it was cloudy all bets are off.  Plain and simple the pilots didn't do what they were supposed to do; they don't need 8-10 different things to tell them they are approaching their destination; they just need to pay attention.
Logged

Mark Spencer
Anchorman
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 10:08:39 AM »

Does anyone have any audio related to this?  If so, please e-mail me at etobias@ap.org.  Thanks.
Logged
bigguy_132
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 10:20:08 AM »

I was wondering the same thing. I would like to hear the audio on this one. CNN also has an article on this now.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/23/airliner.fly.by/index.html
Logged
capybaras
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 04:17:10 PM »

If you read the tracking logs:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA188/history/20091021/2135Z/KSAN/KMSP/tracklog

They descend and turn back west at approx 09:16PM CDT on the 21st (2am gmt +1 day so the 22nd), so comm must have been establish right before then.

Checking the archives for tower on that date, you can hear some comms with NW 188 here:

1:00-1:30 (approach):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0100Z.mp3
Nothing?

1:30-2:00 (approach->almost landing):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0130Z.mp3
Bit after half way through you can hear something about 188, sounds normal.  Then 188 is talked into landing.

2:00-2:30 (approach->landing):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0200Z.mp3
Starts talking them down around 7 miles out, 4000 ft

I dunno, I don't hear much?
Logged
rationaljeff
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 06:28:24 PM »

I downloaded the approach feed, and the tower feed, and there is nothing interesting.

I guess I could put it all together, but doesn't seem worth the effort.
Logged
joeyb747
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1583


Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 06:55:21 PM »

"Officials suspect Flight 188's radio might still have been tuned to a frequency used by Denver controllers even though the plane had flown beyond their reach, said Church, the spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union. Controllers worked throughout the incident with the pilots of other planes, asking them to try to raise Flight 188 using the Denver frequency, he said."

From:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091023/US.Northwest.Airport.Overflown/

I heard this on CNN Radio as well. Basically, they never changed frequency to Mini Center...
Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
Bryant Andrew
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 10:30:41 PM »

The captain probably just said you got control wake me up in an hour...and the co pilot acknowledged then he got tired and fell asleep as well....it wouldnt suprise me.
Logged
jrsx
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39



« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 11:13:53 PM »

There must be nothing worse than waking up and finding your co-pilot asleep. evil
shocked QFT
Logged
kyle172
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162



« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 11:34:02 PM »

Sounds to me that somewhere along the line they missed something. Wrong Frequency? Misinterpreted command from the controller? These things happen
Logged

If you don't see it first then I probably will..
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!