NORTHWEST pilots miss landing strip

[chefnoel]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/northwest-pilots-slumber-miss-landing-strip-wsj-2009-10-22


http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/22/airliner.fly.by/

[mhawke]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA188/history/20091021/2135Z/KSAN/KMSP

There's the flight.  NWA188 from KSAN to KMSP on Weds.   The flightpath shows it well..

[atcman23]

Uhh yeah... "whoops."

Chalk up two for Delta this week.

[joeyb747]

"The NTSB reported, that the crew told Air Traffic Control, that they had become distracted and had overflown Minneapolis and now requested to return.

The FAA reported, that according to post flight interviews the crew had engaged in a heated debate over airline policies and lost situational awareness."

from:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4219f00f&opt=0

Hmmm...engaged in a debate so deep that you don't hear radio calls for 80 minutes?   

[Steelrman]

There must be nothing worse than waking up and finding your co-pilot asleep.

[laylow]

http://www.startribune.com/local/65619367.html?page=1&c=y

[atcman23]

"The NTSB reported, that the crew told Air Traffic Control, that they had become distracted and had overflown Minneapolis and now requested to return.

The FAA reported, that according to post flight interviews the crew had engaged in a heated debate over airline policies and lost situational awareness."

from:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4219f00f&opt=0

Hmmm...engaged in a debate so deep that you don't hear radio calls for 80 minutes?   

Yeah I agree... something else happened here.  You can't be so caught up in a debate that you forget that you're flying an airplane.

Also ran across a poorly written AP article on the accident that suggested that they should have had 15 million warning signs that they were approaching the airport.  Ok, maybe not that many but they suggested that "cockpit displays, controllers trying repeatedly to reach, the city lights twinkling below" should have alerted them.  Besides controllers contacting them (you would think they would hear someone else talking to them), I don't think the "cockpit displays" would have helped much (nothing jumps out and says "APPROACHING MINNEAPOLIS") and looking outside doesn't do much good at 37,000 feet.  Besides it was night time and just because Minneapolis may look bright on the ground doesn't mean it does way up in the air.  And if it was cloudy all bets are off.  Plain and simple the pilots didn't do what they were supposed to do; they don't need 8-10 different things to tell them they are approaching their destination; they just need to pay attention.

[Anchorman]

Does anyone have any audio related to this?  If so, please e-mail me at etobias@ap.org.  Thanks.

[bigguy_132]

I was wondering the same thing. I would like to hear the audio on this one. CNN also has an article on this now.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/23/airliner.fly.by/index.html

[capybaras]

If you read the tracking logs:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA188/history/20091021/2135Z/KSAN/KMSP/tracklog

They descend and turn back west at approx 09:16PM CDT on the 21st (2am gmt +1 day so the 22nd), so comm must have been establish right before then.

Checking the archives for tower on that date, you can hear some comms with NW 188 here:

1:00-1:30 (approach):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0100Z.mp3
Nothing?

1:30-2:00 (approach->almost landing):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0130Z.mp3
Bit after half way through you can hear something about 188, sounds normal.  Then 188 is talked into landing.

2:00-2:30 (approach->landing):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmsp/KMSP-App-Oct-22-2009-0200Z.mp3
Starts talking them down around 7 miles out, 4000 ft

I dunno, I don't hear much?

[rationaljeff]

I downloaded the approach feed, and the tower feed, and there is nothing interesting.

I guess I could put it all together, but doesn't seem worth the effort.

[joeyb747]

"Officials suspect Flight 188's radio might still have been tuned to a frequency used by Denver controllers even though the plane had flown beyond their reach, said Church, the spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union. Controllers worked throughout the incident with the pilots of other planes, asking them to try to raise Flight 188 using the Denver frequency, he said."

From:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091023/US.Northwest.Airport.Overflown/

I heard this on CNN Radio as well. Basically, they never changed frequency to Mini Center...

[Bryant Andrew]

The captain probably just said you got control wake me up in an hour...and the co pilot acknowledged then he got tired and fell asleep as well....it wouldnt suprise me.

[jrsx]

There must be nothing worse than waking up and finding your co-pilot asleep.

QFT

[kyle172]

Sounds to me that somewhere along the line they missed something. Wrong Frequency? Misinterpreted command from the controller? These things happen