Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 30, 2014, 01:58:48 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: NEW Follow LiveATC updates on Twitter and Facebook


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Listener Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  NY air traffic controllers are getting out of control
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: NY air traffic controllers are getting out of control  (Read 22536 times)
Jason
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1260


CFI/CFII


« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2008, 07:50:40 AM »

You know, I don't doubt some of the pilot stories on here, but I have to say that as many times as I have flown in New York airspace, Boston airspace, Philly airspace, and many other places, I have yet to run into a rude controller.  Whether I was IFR or VFR, I just never had a bad experience.  Granted, I don't have as many hours as some of the jet drivers on here, but still.  It all sort of feels like some really frustrated folks on both ends of a straining system.

Still, part of the pilot/controller "relationship" is how you approach it as a pilot.  If you know what you're doing (or don't and just admit it) and you approach the conversation in a positive way, and adjust your requests and tone in a positive way, you get a better result.  Just like any other relationship in life.

Whether you're a controller or a pilot, leave the holier-than-thou attitude at home and we'll all get along a lot better and accomplish what we're all there for - getting home safe and alive, and as quickly as the system allows.

-dave

I have run into plenty of rude controllers, but I normally laugh whenever they give me or someone else on the frequency an attitude.  I call it the stereotypical NY attitude in the cockpit.  Reality is you get a handoff a few minutes later anyway (at least in New York) so one cranky controller shouldn't really have much effect on you.  If you're looking for a shortcut and the controller won't give it to you, try the next one.  It's all about being respectful on both sides of the mic, whether or not it's reciprocal.  The more frustrated you get, the worse you are in the end.  I instill great trust in our controllers and I hope they see the same in us.  If you throw some humor into the mix, things lighten up a bit.

Safe flying...

Best,
Jason
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 07:52:21 AM by Jason » Logged
drFinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2008, 02:20:23 PM »

Quote from Jason..."I have run into plenty of rude controllers, but I normally laugh whenever they give me or someone else on the frequency an attitude.  I call it the stereotypical NY attitude in the cockpit.  Reality is you get a handoff a few minutes later anyway (at least in New York) so one cranky controller shouldn't really have much effect on you.  If you're looking for a shortcut and the controller won't give it to you, try the next one. "

I know you most likely didn't mean it to come out like this--seems like you're telling us a controller with an rude attitude is one who won't give you a shortcut.

Shortcuts although nice for the pilot/ passengers and just as nice for us controllers because they get you up and out quickly so we can move more traffic through our airspace are not always possible depending on how much of a shortcut you're looking for. There are many factors involved including traffic volume, the next controllers traffic volume, weather and so on...

I'm always happy to work on a shortcut for a pilot whether he asks me or not if it helps me and or the next controller and or it helps the pilot.

So with that said the other day when I was pretty busy and you asked for direct point x and I said, "Unable." Was it the fact that I said "Unable" that made me rude or was it my urgent tone...?

Because when I'm busy I always like to use an urgent tone on the freq--for some reason everyone listens better and responds vigilantly and except for the somewhat more frequent pilot that jumps in with both feet on his/ her initial contact and blocks me or a read back I rarely have to repeat instructions. I get a lot of "nice jobs" from pilots too.

Which leads me to believe that you may just be a little sensitive because maybe a couple of times you or some other pilot on freq got chewed out by a controller for a mistake (however small) that was made. Or maybe the controller was already in a bad mood because he got his a$$ handed to him on staggered 22's for 2 hours and just took it out on you or someone else which really wouldn't have been very nice of him at all but I know after a 2 hour session on any staggered config. I'm not in a very good mood either although I won't take it out on anyone on freq (but I'll say something under my breath when I un-key--which gets a few chuckles from my coworkers in the immediate vicinity and lightens the mood.)

The tone I've been getting from this thread is that some of you think all or most of us NY controllers are rude--which couldn't be further from the truth. We have our grouches as I'm sure you pilots do but for the most part we just want to come to work, do our jobs, and go home to our families.



« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 03:19:03 PM by drFinal » Logged

Air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go.
Jason
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1260


CFI/CFII


« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2008, 03:18:23 PM »

I know you most likely didn't mean it to come out like this--seems like you're telling us a controller with an rude attitude is one who won't give you a shortcut

Nope, that's a false inference that you were able to make quite a few paragraphs out of.  I'm not even saying anything remotely close to that -- controllers that won't give shortcuts aren't always rude, in fact the majority of them are so nice that they try their best to get one for you as soon as possible, or coordinate with the next sector prior a change of communication so the next controller is aware and looking out for any possible shortcuts.

What I'm trying to say is that there are a cranky controllers out there, we all have bad days.  That said, there are plenty of cranky pilots, too.  I fly the NY airspace so often I am accustomed to the various tones of each controller, in fact it's comforting to hear an attitude on the frequency sometimes after a long trip out west (you literally get to hear that you're home).

Believe me, I am so appreciative of our NY controllers.  They do an amazing job and always provide excellent service, and I truly mean that.  I enjoy coming down to the TRACON and thanking them as often as I can.  They make my job look simple most days.

Best,
Jason
Logged
drFinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2008, 03:22:02 PM »

Well okay then--that's nice to hear.

And if you hadn't guessed--I like to write a little in my spare time.

Logged

Air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go.
KSYR-pjr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1722



« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2008, 03:24:20 PM »

So with that said the other day when I was pretty busy and you asked for direct point x and I said, "Unable." Was it the fact that I said "Unable" that made me rude or was it my urgent tone...?

My only thought when receiving an "unable" after a request is that there is some good reason why it cannot be granted.  If the controller is too busy to provide a courtesy reason for the "unable" soon enough I will usually hear it (crossing traffic, hand-off to another sector, etc.).  

Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
soffs
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2008, 08:18:58 AM »

Whether you're a controller or a pilot, leave the holier-than-thou attitude at home and we'll all get along a lot better and accomplish what we're all there for - getting home safe and alive, and as quickly as the system allows.
Indeed. I'm only a mere passenger here (I only know how to ride a bicycle), but the point in any traffic is, you're not alone there.
Logged
glencar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176


« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2008, 04:17:01 PM »



To add to the JFK situation, I have heard the same guy you are talking about many times doing very unprofessional things. One time, when he got mad because he had a Jetblue 2745 and a Jetblue 2547, he decided to declare NORDO on the ground frequency of one of the busiest airports in the world. This is absolutely ridiculous.

I am only a private pilot, so I don't have to talk to ATC much, but to all of the IFR pilots out there in the JFK area... you have my sympathy.
Can you provide a tape of this alleged incident? If this really happened, it's unacceptable.

To any controllers in the DC area who have to deal with vicecitydriver, you ahve my sincere sympathies.
Logged
drFinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2008, 06:56:03 PM »

Can you provide a tape of this alleged incident? If this really happened, it's unacceptable.



I think I found the mole.
Logged

Air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go.
cessna157
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708



WWW
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2008, 07:46:17 PM »

Mole?  Like Mole Sauce?  Yuck!    grin
Logged

CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
NY Z Pilot
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 195


« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2008, 11:37:17 PM »

I brought my NY attitude down south, and when im back up north, ill still have it and will use it.
Logged
camrnlendy
Guest
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2008, 11:48:27 AM »

dr.final, yes i think you are right...it seems that errr ahhh wants to hear replays...you have located the mole!
Logged
cessna157
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708



WWW
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2008, 06:34:18 PM »

I would just like to say that I flew into N90 today and had quite a pleasant experience.  Even had a last-minute request that the controller happily accomodated and changed his arrival flow a little to assist us.
Logged

CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
drFinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2008, 06:48:18 PM »

See--we're not all rude ogres.   cheesy
Logged

Air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go.
cessna157
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708



WWW
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2008, 06:59:26 PM »

Heh heh, yes, my point exactly.  Trying to win you guys some brownie points here.

Controller scratched my back, and I (we) returned the favor a couple mins later.  It all works out in the end.
Logged

CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
drFinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2008, 08:24:08 PM »

It all works out in the end.

That brings back memories--about 8 years ago a friend of mine is training this guy and he welds a couple but at the least second gets visual--barely. The he says to my friend, "I don't see what you're getting so upset about--it all worked out in the end."

Now every once in a while we blurt that out--or others funnies from over the years.

Here's another of my favorites:

"N12345 how are you navigating today?"

"Very well thank you."
Logged

Air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!