Author Topic: Open mics  (Read 26126 times)

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Open mics
« on: November 28, 2004, 05:10:36 PM »
I listened to that KMCO and is actually quieter than expected.  While I was living in North Bay, monitoring the North Bay/Sudbury sector, at around 10:20 at night, one of the IFR guys from Toronto center locked his mic open.  All you heard him say was something like "Right, ok thanks, bye"  And he let out a huge exhale and started typing.  I've also noticed that on the Toronto freq for the Timmins-Cobalt sector on 128.3 that there is more background than the controller.  You hear other people yelling, laughing and other aircraft calling in on different radios.  Sometimes, the hotline is ringing like a sick meridian on low tone ringing.  I love it!  :lol:



Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2004, 05:28:01 PM »
Hehe, sounds like a blast, i'll have to checkout Timmins-Cobalt.

One thing which really suprised me is how casual the comms are (on Boston Tracon at least), I hear a lot of non standard phraseology and comm procedures.

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Open mics continued...
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2004, 05:37:43 PM »
I've noticed the phraseology really varies based on location, traffic and approach type.  One term that I hear sometimes, but not often, is the procedure turn.  About the open mics though, I love it.  That way I get a sense of what type of work is going on in the center.  The only open mic with no modulation or dead carrier is Montreal center that we have here in Timmins on 133.97  Not often, but when it happens, it's just dead air with a high pitch whistle until the controller starts talking.

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2004, 05:49:54 PM »
I think most approach procedures Ito busy airports are desgined to avoid requiring procedure turns to save time/money.

I've been trying to listen to the experimental Boston CTR stream but i never hear anything, must be because its experimental? :D

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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procedures
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2004, 06:00:21 PM »
Oh ok.  I didn't know that.  I would agree on the time saving idea with that.  If you know about approaches, could you tell me what effect the VOR/DME approach has on an aircraft?  I know the ILS is designed for poor IFR conditions on an approach.  I assume that VOR/DME is also and instrument approach?

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2004, 06:43:11 PM »
Basically instrument approaches fall into two kinds of procedures:
Non-Precision: VOR,VOR/DME,NDB,GPS etc etc
Precision: ILS

Precision approaches have vertical guidance down to the runway whereas non-precision approaches do not.

Most commerical traffic will generally land with a precision approach ie: ILS when available even if the weather is crystal clear and calm.

In direct answer to your question though, a VOR/DME approach is a VOR non precision approach which requires the aircraft to have DME capabillities to perform the approach. Some VOR approaches have no DME requirement.

Checkout http://naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ver=0407&eff=7-8-2004&end=8-5-2004

for the Instrument procedures for all your fav airports (um...assuming your in the US )

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Approach types
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2004, 06:50:15 PM »
Ok.  I learned something new.  I always thought that during crystal clear VFR conditions, a straight- in without an ILS approach would be ok.  I suppose that's why I always hear aircrafts on approach at Toronto Pearson instructed  clear for an approach for the runway 23 ILS and when I check the metar, it's VFR.  I am in Canada by the way.  I also communicate with a VFR tower employee from Fairbanks AK who tells me  (more like corrects me) on these topics.  Thanks for that info.   :lol:

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2004, 07:04:35 PM »
Yes, basically, to operate in Class B Airspace (US standards), you have to be on Instrument Rules, hence you can't have a visual approach.

Checkout
https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/terminals/termindex.cfm?versionname=V0412&regionname=CANADA/

They have Canadian procedure charts there and procedures for the rest of the world.  They also have IFR enoute charts for everywhere except USA.

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Toronto approach
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2004, 07:51:07 PM »
Hi there. Thanks very much for that link.  I don't understand how others can find the easiest web links and I can't.  I was able to open up that chart with my preview program to check out that plan.  My airport was not listed, but as long as Toronto is there, then I know more of what's going on.  

Speaking of Pearson, I'm monitoring the Toronto frequency and noticed that the Terminal unit controller is really non stop!  I assume because Toronto tower is electronic with no hand written flight plans, that the hand offs are all electronic instead of using the hotline.

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2004, 07:55:33 PM »
Hehe, not quite so easy, I only got that link today off sombody else, it was one of the hardest to find, but one of the best. Have a look around for the NACO equivilent for Canadian airspace, its bound to have procedures for most of the airports.

I imagine that most large TRACONs are able to do electronic handoffs and such.

Offline Biff

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Open mics
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2004, 08:33:59 PM »
If you'd have been listening to SFB this morning you might have heard me with a stuck mic.  ;)

Thankfully I didn't say anything too embarrassing before figuring it out.

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2004, 01:31:19 AM »
Quote from: Biff
If you'd have been listening to SFB this morning you might have heard me with a stuck mic.  ;)

Thankfully I didn't say anything too embarrassing before figuring it out.


:D Are you a Pilot or a Controller?

Offline Jane G

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Open mics
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2004, 05:27:10 AM »
Another goof related to the stuck mic. Does anyone here monitor 121.5 MHz? I've caught a few unintended "in-flight" PA announcements (amongst others) being broadcast on this freq. One in particular lasted over 90sec. Such a shame because you just know that they have wasted their breath and will have to do it all over again. But funny anyway.

Offline Biff

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Open mics
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2004, 10:19:04 AM »
Kneecaps, I'm a private pilot.  The PTT switch was stuck down before I even started the airplane.  As soon as I switched on the radios I was broadcasting.  :?  I'm sure everyone had a good chuckle listening to me trying to talk with my passenger, wondering why the intercom wasn't working.

Jane, can't say I've ever heard that, but I'm going to have to start listening now.   :)

Offline drl5555

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Open mics
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2004, 04:24:42 PM »
Kneecaps, you're mostly correct with the different types of instrument approaches, but there's also something called a "Visual Approach." A visual approach is used in good weather conditions, and can only be assigned to IFR aircraft with either the airport or the traffic they're following in sight. A pilot "cleared for the visual" can decide what pattern to make and when to initiate a descent to the airport. This expedites traffic flow to an airport because there is no need to vector aircraft onto the localizer. So, in good  weather conditions a visual approach is most often used, unless other circumstances prevail.

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2004, 04:29:24 PM »
I know about Visual Approaches, however listen to Boston approach at practically any time of day and even in clear weather, 99% of aircraft (commercial carriers) will be cleared for ILS approaches.

The only kind of aircraft I ever hear being cleared visual is GA or smaller commuter type aircraft and its generally to a different runway to the one in use for ILS.

But at smaller airports visual approaches are very common indeed.

Offline dave

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Open mics
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2004, 04:52:45 PM »
This has a lot to do with the rules under which commercial carriers fly (both Part 135 and company rules).

Offline kneecaps

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Open mics
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2004, 05:07:37 PM »
Ah...that makes sense, I thought there must be some legal/regulatory reason for this.

I have read that you can file IFR but then request or specify a visual approach at your destination airport. Presumably this doesnt apply to carriers?

Can a commerical airliner ever land on visual?

Offline PHL Approach

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Open mics
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2004, 08:36:43 PM »
Yea, I've heard plenty Commercial Airliners take the visual. I think they may have to request it, unless the ILS is out......

Offline AmericaWestCMH

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Open mics
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2004, 08:55:14 PM »
Unless the weather is marginally VFR here in Columbus, most if not all of the airliners get the visual.

Offline drl5555

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Open mics
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2004, 03:11:19 PM »
Yeah, commercial airliners can land on a visual approach, it happens all the time, and they do not need to request it. The fact that airliners use the ILS at Boston even in clear weather must have something to do with noise abatement or other local special procedures. It really depends on the specific airport.

Offline dave

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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2004, 01:02:31 AM »
Quote from: drl5555
Yeah, commercial airliners can land on a visual approach, it happens all the time, and they do not need to request it. The fact that airliners use the ILS at Boston even in clear weather must have something to do with noise abatement or other local special procedures. It really depends on the specific airport.


They don't always use the ILS in clear weather...plenty of visual approaches by commercial airliners and bizjets in Boston.  The original poster has his facts a little bent out of shape.

Dave

Offline n20295

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Class B Airspace
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2004, 08:43:58 PM »
Quote from: kneecaps
Yes, basically, to operate in Class B Airspace (US standards), you have to be on Instrument Rules, hence you can't have a visual approach.
I'd like to correct you regarding IFR in Class B airspace.  
You are correct that an aircraft needs a "clearance" to operate in class B airspace, but that does note mean an instrument clearance.  It simply means a clearance into or through the class B airspace.  As a pilot you need to hear the words "N1234C is cleared into the Class Bravo Airspace"
If you listen in clear weather it is not uncommon to hear an aircraft on an instrument flight plan "cleared for the visual approach".  At Class B airports or others operating within class B airspace aircraft may not be given visual approaches due to the traffic volume.  By sequencing traffic onto the localizer or final approach course of an approach, the controllers have better control because those aircraft must follow prescribed instructions.  Visual approaches of aircraft are common at class C and other airport when the weather is VFR.  
If an aircraft on an instrument flight rules flight flies a visual approach they are still on an instrument flight plan until it is either cancelled by the pilot either in the air or on the ground at a non-towered airport or by ATC tower personnel upon touchdown of that aircraft.  So, a pilot who lands at a towered airport when the tower is open never has to remember to cancel his flight plan.
You may have confused Class B with Class A.  Class A is airspace from FL 180 to and including FL 600.  Any aircraft operating in class A airspace, reguardless of weather conditions must operate on an instrument flight plan.
Regards,
Mike

Offline FWA2500

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Open mics
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 02:30:35 PM »
the otherday listining in on cleveland, there was a beech 1900 (if i heard correctly) having trouble with thier fuel mixture, i guess they forgot to switch off thier mic and i heard them telling thier copilot (i think) that they were going to have to turn back around and park to get it straitened out before taking off...... :roll: then there was some conversation about what kind of oil to use? lol, was a bit confusing



anyong have a stream for cincinatti? im in oxford so the cinci aproach/dep. would cover oxford......wouldnt mind listinging in without having to go to the airport...lol (they have speakers outside that are tuned to the freq...

Offline FWA2500

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Open mics
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2004, 02:34:14 PM »
scratch what i said about cvg...lol, i found that there was a new one on the list 8)