airtraffic

Author Topic: opposite traffic information  (Read 9265 times)

Offline kuznetsova

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
opposite traffic information
« on: October 17, 2005, 12:56:38 AM »
Hello All,
can anyone provide me with the live ATC of information about opposite traffic?
I live in Russia and I really want to see how you do it abroad as it differs much from our procedures.
Thanks in advance.
Anna



Offline dave

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4593
    • LiveATC.net
opposite traffic information
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 01:07:08 AM »
Hi Anna-

Here are some examples directly from the 7110.65P, the current version of the FAA order for controllers:

    "United Sixteen and American Twenty-five, traffic twelve o'clock, one zero miles, opposite direction, eastbound seven twenty seven at flight level three three zero, westbound MD-Eighty at flight level three one zero."

    "Delta One Twenty Three, fly heading two niner zero, vector for traffic. Traffic twelve o'clock, one zero miles, opposite direction, MD-80 eastbound at flight level three two zero."

You can hear traffic callouts on almost all of the busy live feeds at this web site via streaming audio.

Enjoy,
dave

Offline binky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
opposite traffic information
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 01:08:11 PM »
You may also hear the altitude of the traffic described in terms of the number of feet above or below.  eg, Traffic 12 o'clock 9 miles, opposite direction MD80 1000 feet above.  This format is more confortable to use when dealing with a pilot who's first language may not be English.  There have been instances where a pilot doesnt fully hear or comprehend the traffic passing information but hears and understands "traffic" or "FL310" portion and mistakes it as the controller issuing them a clearance to FL310.  This obviously is not good.

Offline kuznetsova

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
opposite traffic information
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 07:57:47 PM »
Thanks for your help, Dave and Binky!

Falcon900

  • Guest
Crossing Traffic
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2005, 02:49:34 AM »
Anna,

Maybe you are a controller?yes??

I have over the last years (prior to 9/11) travelled been to the flightdeck on CathayPacific and SQ flight to London and AMS while over Russian airspace. In those times the comms were on HF  with Moscow and the ATC and traffic info was very interesting, not unsafe but, very much different to western countries.

Quite often oppositie or crossing traffic could be visually seen or via the TCAS  above or below which helped the pilots as the lanuage and the accent was very strong Russian which created some counfusion at times. Conflicts and requests took much time to be received but thankfully most of the traffic was same direction. Very frustrating for pilots.

Can you tell me if there are still HF ATC links in Russian airpace from Hongkong to Europe??

Thanks and regards

Hayden

Offline Jonathan_tcu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
opposite traffic information
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 07:30:54 AM »
You will also hear, up here in northern Ontario between Creebec air that flies to Moosonee CYMO, and Cree 649 and Cree136 (as an example) who fly in opposite directions.  YOu'll hear : "Cree 136, traffic, opposite direction, 11 o'clock for 7 miles, 1000 feet above you, (aircraft type)  is your company Cree649, and BREAK Cree 649, your opposite direction traffic is your company Cree136, 5 o'clock, 1000 feet below you (aircraft type) please report visual reference."

Sometimes, ATC will advise targets, with aircraft type, direction of flight, etc, but most times the altitude is unknown and remarked as unknown/unverified, be advised.

Offline kuznetsova

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
opposite traffic information
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2005, 07:20:05 PM »
Thanks Jonathan_tcu. Any information is helpful to me.

Hayden, I am a bit embaressed by your information about "strong Russian accent". I am not a controller but I teach our controllers English and phraseology. So I can assure you that situation is not so bad in our ACC. At least we do all our best to teach them good English. And right now we spend much time on training giving conflicting traffic information. There is strict sequence of this information issued by Doc 4444 and Doc 9432 so the simplest way to give this kind of information is just to follow this form and it will be clear both for natural speakers and foreigners. Anyway we make our controllers keep to this phraseology.
As for question about HF ATC links in Russian airspace from Hongkong to Europe I can hardly answer this question as our ACC provides ATC for flights over Russian airspace from Canada and America to South-Eastern Asia and we have UHF over ground and HF and CPDLC connection over water.
But I consulted our controllers and they told me that UHF is more common for the part of Russia you are interested in.

If you have any more questions you are always welcome to ask!

Anna

Offline Wolfala

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
opposite traffic information
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2005, 10:02:40 PM »
I've been to Russia 4 times within the past year and i've always been interested in how the other side sounds. Are there feeds out of Moscow or St. Pete similar to what is setup on this site? I know the security rules are different over there, so if not no big deal. But how about pre-recorded Approach/Departure or Tower with International/Domestic mix?

Best,

Alex


P.S.

Was in the Amur region, Moscow & St. Pete

Falcon900

  • Guest
Teaching English phrasology to controllers.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2005, 04:11:40 AM »
Dear Anna,

Thank you for your reply to my questions. It is some time ago in the 1990's and most likely the situation has improved a lot in terms of experience and tarining i am sure. ATC via HF radio is not easily understood at the best of times

With regard to your occupation teaching English language to ATC controllers, I have some information of a person in Switzerland who also provides training audio material for ATC controllers who do not speak English as there first language.

He is a Swiss national and works for SkyGuide and as a tower controller at Zurich International airport. I met him along with his wife during a vacation to New Zealand.

If you are at all interested please advise and i can forward his private e-mail address to you.

Kindest regards

Hayden

Offline Runhog

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: opposite traffic information
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2005, 08:27:22 PM »
Quote from: kuznetsova
Hello All,
can anyone provide me with the live ATC of information about opposite traffic?
I live in Russia and I really want to see how you do it abroad as it differs much from our procedures.
Thanks in advance.
Anna


We pass two types of traffic, one to radar identified aircraft and the other to non-radar identified traffic.

Radar Identified Example (CDN)

SFSH14, Greenwood Terminal, Traffic your 6 O'clock for 5miles, slow moving west bound, type and altitude unconfirmed.

1.Posistion of the traffic relative to the aircraft your talking to(in o'clock posistion).
2. Relative speed
3. Direction the traffic is moving to.
4. Type (if known)
5. Altitude (if known)

Continue passing traffic until the pilot calls Tally or the traffic is no longer a conflict.

Not Radar Identified Example

SFSH14, Greenwood Terminal, possible traffic 13 miles East of the GF Beacon, fast moving north bound, type unknown, mode C reads 6500 unconfirmed.

Only difference being you pass traffic in relation to a fix, navaid or airport as the aircraft you are providing traffic to has not been radar identified.
I believe this is good when providing traffic in non-radar environments as well but having not worked radar in awhile I might be wrong.

Offline kuznetsova

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
opposite traffic information
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2005, 11:15:45 PM »
Hyaden, that would be very nice of you to forward me the address of that Swiss trainer as I don't have much material to study. Even the one I find at this site is a bit complicated even for me as I am not an air tfaffic controller. The transmissions are too qiuck and often undistinct for foreigners. I hope he's got something to share with us and perhaps I can be of some help to him.
Thanks in advance.
Anna


What concerns Russian feeds, Alex. I've been looking for them as I am interested in them as well but unfortunately found nothing. There was one several years ago but it doesn't exist anymore. I will study the possibility of setting up the prerecorded ones  but I can't promise anything. Anyway I'll do my best to share some transmissions with you.

Best Regards, Anna