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Author Topic: Oprah show -- Friday Sept. 30, 2005 -- DFW controller  (Read 7206 times)
jester115
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« on: October 03, 2005, 04:05:11 PM »

Hey,

I didn't watch the show, but I heard about a lady from the DFW tower being on Oprah on Friday and talking about being harassed.  Below is the link to the story (what was said on the show).  Pretty scary that stuff like that would happen.  Post feedback on your views.

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200509/20050930/slide_20050930_350_110.jhtml
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KCbook05
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 09:55:43 PM »

She did the right thing, i didnt see the show but after reading that, those other controllers had no right to harass her. Her job is to make sure the aircraft and the passengers and crew are safe and inturn she gets called a snitch...
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My Altitude
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 10:01:09 AM »

She definitely did the right thing.
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richiejay
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 01:19:18 PM »

That is assuming that she is tellin the truth.....
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tyketto
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 01:36:24 PM »

Quote from: richiejay
That is assuming that she is tellin the truth.....


To be honest, this is rather low.

EDIT: If you read the article (from the sound of it, you haven't), you see that the problem wasn't the harassment, it was the loss of legal separation of two aircrafts. She wrote in to the officials, who investigated, and found out that she was RIGHT. There were separation errors which were being covered up.

A harassment incident and allegation is nothing to be lying about, as it has serious repercussions, ESPECIALLY in a government environment. It also isn't something you would take lightly with going public about it. think about it. If she were harassed at work privately, think how more gruesome it would be after coming out about it.

She is doing (and did) the right thing, whether you believe it or not.

How do we know that it isn't you that she brought up these allegations against?

BL.
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Jason
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 01:40:33 PM »

Quote from: richiejay
That is assuming that she is tellin the truth.....


This is a very blatant and spiteful comment.

You can't say it until you're in that position that she's in.  Put your self in her shoes, she's the one behind the headset in this situation, not you nor anyone besides her and the co-workerd involved.

I am sorry to see this happen to a truthful individual and I wish her the best of luck in trying to regain another Air Traffic position.

Jason
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richiejay
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 03:18:52 PM »

To be honest, this is rather low.

Low to question someone telling the truth?  I think not.  I think it is all of our responsibilities.


A harassment incident and allegation is nothing to be lying about, as it has serious repercussions, ESPECIALLY in a government environment.

I could not agree with you more.

She is doing (and did) the right thing, whether you believe it or not.

This is your opinion.

How do we know that it isn't you that she brought up these allegations
against?

You don't.  just like you don't know which parts she say are fact or fiction.

BL.[/quote]
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richiejay
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 03:22:26 PM »

This is a very blatant and spiteful comment.

To question someone's motivations and truthfulness is not spiteful.  If what she says is true, she should be applauded.  If what she says is a lie...well we won't go there.

You can't say it until you're in that position that she's in.

I can say anything I want.  This is a forum.
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tyketto
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2005, 05:29:32 PM »

Quote from: richiejay
This is a very blatant and spiteful comment.

To question someone's motivations and truthfulness is not spiteful.  If what she says is true, she should be applauded.  If what she says is a lie...well we won't go there.

You can't say it until you're in that position that she's in.

I can say anything I want.  This is a forum.


Re-read the article.

the problem isn't the harassment. That is a secondary thing that should never have happened to begin with.

The problem was the loss of legal separation between two aircrafts. She was worried more about the lives of the passengers and crew of those planes than being a whistleblower in a situation where other controllers were trying to cover it up. She went to her superiors, who slapped her down. She went further up (keeping in mind her initial intention: the LIVES OF THE PASSENGERS), and went to their superiors.

Is it her fault that her co-workers were not doing their jobs efficiently? Of course not. Their actions and cover-up caused the facility to be audited, in which their cover-up was exposed. Blown up. Brought forth. This isn't anything she is alleging. This happened. This is already said and done:

Quote

Anne filed a report about the practices of the air traffic controllers at the Dallas airport with the Inspector General Office of the Department of Transportation. An investigation found that some operational errors—when two aircraft come too close to each other—were indeed being covered up and a report was submitted to a Congressional subcommittee and the office of the President of the United States.


You can question until you're an entire rainbow in the face. This already happened, and she did the right thing.

Let's also turn this around. If this were you, what would YOU do?

BL.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 05:35:05 PM »

Richiejay, Im curious as to what facility you work at?
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richiejay
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 07:55:02 PM »

Quote from: PHL_Approach
Richiejay, Im curious as to what facility you work at?


BOS Tower...do you know Sharon??
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richiejay
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 08:30:10 PM »

BL,

  All I'm asking you to do is open your mind up a little bit.  Here's a scenario:

SUPPOSE she files a harassment charge and it really isn't harrassment...but she claims it is and gets nowhere with it.(maybe a hidden agenda)  Suppose she then says.."If you do not take me seriously, I'm going over your head to say that we are having less than standard separation between aircraft. Let me interject here and say that this is done...EVERY DAY...in EVERY facility.  Not only is it done...it is encouraged.  You are considered a weak stick if you don't push the tin.  So, of course when the IG comes in, they find deals left and right.  Of course these are the kind of deals that are 2.9 miles of separation where you need 3.  Dangerous? Hardly...but technically illegal.  The press has a field day with these and calls them "near misses".  Makes it sounds dangerous.  Let me re-iterate that these have happened on a daily basis...everywhere in the country for say, the past twenty years.  Now the IG investigates facilities all over the country.  Controllers now back way off on the separation..and shoot for 3.3 or more so it does not deteriote to under three.  Traffic is up...but now delays are way up....the system was already stretced too thin...now it gets stretched even further.  Who loses?  Anyone getting on an airplane...sitting on the tarmac for an extra hour because the IG is listeneing.

Have I read the article?  Yes I have. several times.  My point is that it MAY not be as it seems and there are two sides to every story.   The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2005, 08:47:05 PM »

Quote from: richiejay
Quote from: PHL_Approach
Richiejay, Im curious as to what facility you work at?


BOS Tower...do you know Sharon??


Yep, I know Sharon.
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digger
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2005, 09:09:38 PM »

Quote
This already happened, and she did the right thing.


There's the "right thing", and the "wrong thing", and then there's the right thing for the wrong reason, and the wrong thing for the right reason.

From what I've been told, richiejay is accururate in what he says about the pressure from above to move traffic. I've been told that, at certain facilities, under certain traffic loads and certain conditions, it's mathematically impossible to fit the traffic into the airspace in the time specified, and still do it legally. Yet it is accomplished. If illegal equals wrong, who's doing wrong here? The controllers or the management? And are they doing wrong for right or wrong reasons? Or does illegal not necessarily equal wrong, if it's what has to be done to move the traffic?

Harrassment. Whistleblowing. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I think everybody here should keep in mind that you are NEVER going to get ALL the pertinent facts, and know everybody's motivations, right wrong or otherwise, by watching Oprah, or reading this or any other website.

Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of those hardworking controllers who are accomplishing the mathematically impossible every day, you are doing them a grave disservice to presume to judge them.  
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tyketto
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2005, 09:37:39 PM »

I see all of your points, Richie, but the 'walk a mile in my shoes' justification sometimes doesn't cut it. If someone peddles their assets on the street or drug deals or something dire like that because they can't get a good job for <insert various reasons here> and get arrested, they can't say that they're doing it because their children are going to school hungry and complaining about the next time they'll have some milk and Corn Flakes! They're still going to get arrested and thrown in jail, because they did the wrong thing, and they can't reasonably justify it.

I'd much rather prefer to be called that weak stick if I choose not to sacrifice quality over quantity. Yes, you are spread thin. I totally understand that, and we know who to place the blame for that. I'd also love to help out, but unfortunately, I turned 31 this year, so I couldn't. What matters more? getting the aircrafts to their destinations safely, or getting more to those destinations? I know there are pros and cons to both, but I'd much rather get there in one piece than run the risk of being packed together. The numbers may look good, but the numbers of lives mean much more to everyone.

You are right, but wrong.. there are 3 sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. Will we ever know the truth? I do not know. Do we have the right to know the truth? yes. will we ever get the truth? once again, I do not know. Should harassment ever occur? no. right now, this is a her word against theirs. From what I gathered from the article, she filed the complaint with the DOT, then the harassment started. This leads me to think that it started after she witnessed the deal. I don't know what the IG does, because it isn't as if the public or any enthusiasts like us get invited to something like that (btw, is Operation Raincheck still going on?)..

Believe me, I do appreciate what you guys are doing, and truly wish I could be one of you. But I do wonder if too much of the impossible has been asked of you with demand for more planes to be in the air with as little as you are behind the scopes. Perhaps a re-org or modification to the rules to allow more people to become controllers? (hint hint)

BL.
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