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| | |-+  phl to msp
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Author Topic: phl to msp  (Read 4045 times)
vz1
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« on: June 17, 2007, 04:01:05 PM »

i would like to know which artcc will i pass thru on my trip to msp from phl? the route which i see most of the times is ptn sarra rav psb djb crl bae eau8.  also on this route when to get near msp can you see the mall?

thank you
lyle
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 04:44:18 PM »

ZNY -> ZOB -> ZMP

New York - Cleveland - Minneapolis
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cactushp
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 05:22:33 PM »

From my experience with MSP, is that when you are on left downwind for runway 30, you can see the mall. I guess it goes backwards too like on right downwind runway 12.
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Scott Mulhollan
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 07:46:41 PM »

I believe between ZOB AND ZMP IS ZAU Ed. He would be on 135.725/133.525 transiting to ZAU to 126.125/125.975
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cactushp
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 08:28:12 PM »

There is a border with ZMP and ZOB, although looking at flightaware it is very unlikely an aircraft would take the northern route.
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Scott Mulhollan
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 08:59:51 PM »

Mike on that routing you go through a sliver of ZOB and ZMP's border. No ZAU needed... Exactly what Scott said.
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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 10:00:07 PM »

I dunno cause one night listening to the ZOB feed I tracked a flight from PHL TO MSP handing off from 135.725 ZOB to 126.125 ZAU. I really wish I could remeber the day I heard it  Ed!!!!!!! Clear conditions so there were no Deviations Involved
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 10:05:19 PM by NYARTCCFAN » Logged
davolijj
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 10:15:56 PM »

I think I can settle this with the help of NWA682...
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JD
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 01:13:42 PM »

Exactamundo Davo.   Thanks
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JetScan1
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2007, 10:16:19 AM »

For all it's worth, just looking over some routes off Flight Aware, they will occasionally on PHL-MSP use the northern route that bypasses Chicago/ZAU airspace.

NWA395 this morning ....

PTW.PTW320.SARAA.J64.RAV.PSB.J60.DJB.FNT.J106.GRB.EAU8

This route via DJB.FNT.J106.GRB bypasses ZAU, although it doesn't seem to be used that often. The AWI flight right behind NWA395 was routing the usual way through ZAU via DJB.J34.CRL.PMM.J70.BAE. Interestingly the NWA flights inbound to MSP this morning out of IAD, BWI and DCA were on the northern route bypassing ZAU via DJB.FNT.J106.GRB as well. Maybe ZAU is restricting traffic through their airspace at certain times of the day, or it's just a NWA thing ?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 10:18:45 AM by JetScan1 » Logged
MathFox
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2007, 08:38:09 AM »

For all it's worth, just looking over some routes off Flight Aware, they will occasionally on PHL-MSP use the northern route that bypasses Chicago/ZAU airspace.
[...]
This route via DJB.FNT.J106.GRB bypasses ZAU, although it doesn't seem to be used that often. The AWI flight right behind NWA395 was routing the usual way through ZAU via DJB.J34.CRL.PMM.J70.BAE. Interestingly the NWA flights inbound to MSP this morning out of IAD, BWI and DCA were on the northern route bypassing ZAU via DJB.FNT.J106.GRB as well. Maybe ZAU is restricting traffic through their airspace at certain times of the day, or it's just a NWA thing ?
It could be a capacity planning issue; some sectors can get congested and then route planning will assign "slots" to the airlines that file flight plans through the sector. (A slot means that the plane will have to fly on an ATC prescribed schedule.) Planning the trip through less busy airspace can avoid slots (or get the airline a better slot) at the cost of some extra fuel consumption. It's up to airline operations to make the decision between fuel and delays.
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JetScan1
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2007, 10:02:07 AM »

Looking at flights (FlightAware) operated over the last few weeks between PHL-MSP it's only Northwest (5 daily flights) that appear to use this northern route occasionaly, the US Airways Express carriers (Air Wisconsin and Republic with 4 daily flights) always flew the southern route through ZAU over BAE. Of the last 50 flights operated by NWA, 13 (26%) operated via the northern route over FNT.GRB bypassing ZAU. When they did go north and bypass ZAU it didn't appear to be related to any particular flight, time, or weather (thunderstorms) ? DJ
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