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Author Topic: PHL TRACON airspace question  (Read 6749 times)
BigRoidBoy
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« on: March 19, 2006, 09:52:17 PM »

Can someone please describe to me the breakdown of phl's airspace to the east of phl international including altitudes and sector names?  Please describe any differences in sectors when on 9 vs. 27.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2006, 09:57:02 PM »

You want the sectors only to the east, you know the airspace flip flops when operations are changed? Explain exactly all you want and I'll try to get on and post it tomorrow morning. If not in the morning, then it will definately be posted by tomorrow evening.
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BigRoidBoy
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006, 10:38:36 PM »

to the best of my knowledge.... to the northeast the sector working ttn, surface to 5000 i believe.  above them , north arrivals not sure of the altitudes, to the southeast is south arrivals, i'm assuming the n. and s. arrival border is right on the localizer.   i'm not sure of the finals altitude.  not sure of the sector name or altitude below s. arrivals.   can you describe the departures airpace when on 9?  thanks
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phlcontroller
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 06:21:05 AM »

Oh boy, that would take alot more time to type out than I have right now, But you are right as far as the NA/SA boundary on the localizer no matter what configuration we are in. As far as the final airspace...we handoff to the final at 6000, so final owns up to and including 5000. Sectors? you could be anywhere in our airspace, and there could be 4 different sectors working different altitudes, It's very restrictive and challenging to work. CB.
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phlcontroller
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 08:36:36 AM »

Sector names---- north dept., north arrival, north high, pottstown, yardley, south dept., south arrival, dupont, woodstown, south high, final 1, final2. and all the associated handoff positions. CB.
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BigRoidBoy
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 03:24:14 PM »

Thanks for the help.  What is the highest altitude for N. and S. Arrivals?  Is Woodstown pretty much the same as Yardley except on the south side. (surface to 5000)?  How many miles from north to south is your finals airspace?  I like how the dual downwind setup PHL uses looks compared to New Yorks long curving follow-the-leader setup.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 04:00:48 PM »

Since it's complicated to explain the Departure setup. Im gonna find my scanned video maps and post them so you can get a grasp of the altitude setup. The highest section that South Arrival owns is next to TERRI and it's 100-70. On the 27 setup, North Arrival owns from the end of the 9's north about 30 miles and all the way along the final 100-60. Woodstown is just like Yarley, Pottstown and Dupont. Final Vectors One owns from the 27L centerline north. There are four slices. Inside JALTO and ESKOE it's 30. Outside of the markers to about 15 miles out they own SFC-50. Another 5 miles out it's 50-30 and the final 5 miles is 50-40.

Yardley on both runway setups, the southern airspace is from SFC-50. Farther to the north it's SFC-60.

Pottstown to the north owns SFC-060, just off BUNTS its SFC-050 and then in the 17 final it's SFC-040. Over the 27 final approach course where 35 aircraft are placed on the downwind its only 40.

Woodstown also owns SFC-50 in the middle. To the south of the sector, off to the northwest of VCN they own 50-30. Then in the 35 final, they own SFC-050.

Dupont (Rarely used) on 27 ops they own SFC-60. On 9 ops, it's has about 9 different slices. The two main ones are of course SFC-50 and SFC-60.
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vz1
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 10:18:48 PM »

in the morning about 0930 gmt planes coming to phl from the west do thay always come across blind? their seems to be a lot of traffic at that time of morning.  when phl is using the 9's with a 330 degree heading thay come right over my house.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2006, 05:01:13 PM »

www.zmpartcc.org/images/FV1-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/FV1-RWY27.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/FV1-RWY27-SAPR.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/FV2-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/NA-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/NA-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/SA-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/SA-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/ARD-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/ARD-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/DQO-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/DQO-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/PTW-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/PTW-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/OOD-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/OOD-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/ND-RWY27.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/ND-RWY9.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/SD-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/SD-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/NH-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/NH-RWY27.jpg

www.zmpartcc.org/images/SH-RWY9.jpg
www.zmpartcc.org/images/SH-RWY27.jpg

*These images may not be used for anything other than personal reference. These images may also not be edited, modified, duplicated or reproduced in any way shape or form.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2006, 05:17:55 PM »

Quote from: vz1
in the morning about 0930 gmt planes coming to phl from the west do thay always come across blind?


What do you mean by coming across blind?

Quote from: vz1
their seems to be a lot of traffic at that time of morning.  when phl is using the 9's with a 330 degree heading thay come right over my house.


The main arrival push starts at about 1pm and stops at about 4pm. Another one picks up at about 6pm all the way till 9pm sometimes. There is a morning departure push that kicks in at 11am and ends at about 12:30pm and then one starting at 5pm to about 7pm when the heavies start to head back to Europe.
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JALTO
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2006, 07:00:15 PM »

Were those football plays or directions for airplanes  cheesy

-J
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taf158
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2006, 08:39:01 PM »

"in the morning about 0930 gmt planes coming to phl from the west do thay always come across blind?"

I think he was talking about the intersection BWINE on the ILS for 09R.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2006, 09:23:20 PM »

Ahh, thank you. I would have never of guessed that. Generally BWINE is used when the final needs a bit of an extension. There is a fix for 27R named KIRDE that is used just like BWINE is. Though BWINE is used much more than KIRDE.
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WRI Approach
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2006, 11:33:17 PM »

Can you describe finals operations with two finals vectors?  Do you guys always have those two sectors decombined or what?  What sector owns over BRAND at 7000 and 8000 when you're on 27?  It looks like south departure when you're on 9.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2006, 07:16:33 AM »

Quote from: WRI Approach
Can you describe finals operations with two finals vectors?  Do you guys always have those two sectors decombined or what?  What sector owns over BRAND at 7000 and 8000 when you're on 27?  It looks like south departure when you're on 9.


FV1 and FV2 sectors are setup next to each other. They are both open together about 90% of normal weekday other then mid shifts when most sectors get combined on ND and SD. When combined and FV2 is not open, SA will run the 35 final. As for coordination and spacing between the 27R/35 finals. FV2 has a tool called CRDA, Converginging Runway Display Aid. It simply creates a line ghost aircraft of the 27R final and places it on the 35 final. So whatever an aircraft does on the 27R final, these "ghost" will do exactly the same thing as the 27R "real" aircraft. They display mainly speed. So that whomever is working FV2, SA/FV2 or OOD then they can shoot the 35 arrivals between the "ghost" gaps, lock the speed and send them on their merry way. As for who owns BRAND at 70/80 while on the 27s. I would like to say SA, which also gets HOLLY released. I'll get back to you on that.
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