Author Topic: Question on terminology  (Read 11466 times)

Offline nahminator

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Question on terminology
« on: August 21, 2008, 05:07:33 PM »
I'm an enthusiast, not an ATC, so forgive me if this is a naive question.

I often hear pilots say their callsign and add one of the following:
-with quebec
-with echo
-heavy

I'm guessing heavy is to identify themselves as being a larger aircraft in order to caution for wake turbulance.  Is that right?

What about quebec and echo?  I know those are part of the phonetic alphabet, but I'm curious as to what it means when they say "United 139 with quebec", etc.

Thanks for any info.  This site is awesome!



Offline Canadian eh

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 06:03:18 PM »
"Heavy" is required on check in with every new center/sector. it's done as a reminder about wake turb.

"with Echo/Quebec" is in regards to what ATIS the pilot has. the ATIS is a repeated recorded weather broadcast that pilots can tune in and pick up off a different freq. when approaching dest. the first recorded ATIS of the day is "alpha" and then the next is "bravo" and so on. the ATIS is replaced with a new recording every hour or everytime a special comes out. one of the ATIS's i work with broadcasts about 150 NM so on days with lots of weather it's not uncommon to have a pilot check in and say he has "Quebec" and we'll tell him to go pick up "romeo".


Offline Chananya Freedman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 06:04:59 PM »
Hi!  I can help.  Each airport has an automated system where it gives the current weather information.  Each hour the weather information is updated.  You're right about echo being part of the phonetic alphabet.  They go through each letter of the alphabet so that the pilots and the controllers know what new weather information is current.  For example, if a pilot says they have information "echo", if you hear it again the next hour, you'll hear the pilot say that they have information "foxtrot".  Each hour the information is changed and gets assigned a new letter. 

With regards to your second question, I have the following answer:
The terminology of "heavy" you got exactly right.  It's telling the controller that they have a heavy weight, meaning the plane itself is heavy, despite its baggage or people.  It's more to do with the size of the plane.

I'm glad I could help. 

Chananya

Offline tyketto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 06:50:36 PM »

With regards to your second question, I have the following answer:
The terminology of "heavy" you got exactly right.  It's telling the controller that they have a heavy weight, meaning the plane itself is heavy, despite its baggage or people.  It's more to do with the size of the plane.

I'm glad I could help. 

Chananya

You're close on this one! :)

It actually has to do with the MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) of the plane. If the MTOW exceeds 255,000lbs, it is deemed a heavy aircraft. The B757-200 is the exception, as its MTOW is exactly 255,000lbs.* The B757-300 exceeds that, so it and anything with a heavier MTOW (A34x, A33x, B76x, B74x, B76x, B77x, A380, DC10, L1011, MD11, etc.) will have heavy in its callsign.

BL.

* The now-defunct ATA airlines explicitly configured their B757-200s to exceed that weight, so theirs used heavy in their callsign regardless.

Offline cessna157

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • facebook
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 09:59:19 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Heavy callsign is only used in the terminal enviornment.  Usually center controllers and most pilots (those who know the intricacies of the system) don't even bother with the Heavy unless they're talking with app/dep or local controllers.

During the enroute phase in class A airspace, we're all seperated at 5+ miles and 1000' travelling fast, so wake isn't much of an issue.

Offline PHL Approach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 02:07:21 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Heavy callsign is only used in the terminal enviornment.  Usually center controllers and most pilots (those who know the intricacies of the system) don't even bother with the Heavy unless they're talking with app/dep or local controllers.

During the enroute phase in class A airspace, we're all seperated at 5+ miles and 1000' travelling fast, so wake isn't much of an issue.

Bingo, you would never know if a heavy jet was operating in Class A unless you heard the controller give a TA.

Offline Canadian eh

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 01:43:58 PM »
i work enroute control and heavy is required on first check in and does affect separation standards. besides the standard a/c in trail here are two other times that come to mind about when it make a diff.
a enroute standard that we use all the time is: you can discontinue vertical separation when: a/c have passed and: A.are 3 miles apart. B. rps's don not overlap and you have valid mode c readouts or both are below 15000". rps's are Radar Postion Symbols. aka you don't need 5 miles, you just need them past each other. if you got a med (wanting higher) 1000' feet under a heavy and they are head to head. you can't let the med climb into the wake even thought you have you required 3 miles tail to tail.
another time is when you got a heavy you gotta work through your traffic to get him down to land. say you level him out 1000' above a PC12. even if he is out running him by 200knots, you can't descend the heavy until you have the wake turb min of 6 miles.

on our radar screens the data tags look like this as a reminder. light would be CA1684-, a med would be CA1684, and a heavy looks like this CA1684+.

Offline Shannon_App_121.40

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • http://www.shannonairportenthusiasts.net
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 05:23:18 PM »
In Europe usually Heavy is not used much at all, maybe on initial contact but after that it is omitted.

Offline glencar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 09:19:31 PM »
When I worked at the center, we always said "heavy" & we do the same at NY Approach.

Offline Glavata

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2008, 04:49:48 AM »
How about using the phonetic alphabet on approach? I remember listening to ATC in my United flight to SFO when the pilot said something like: "United xxx for 28R with(we have) Foxtrot." 

Offline KSYR-pjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2008, 07:00:16 AM »
How about using the phonetic alphabet on approach? I remember listening to ATC in my United flight to SFO when the pilot said something like: "United xxx for 28R with(we have) Foxtrot." 

That was answered in the second and third posts in this thread.  :)

Offline nahminator

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Question on terminology
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 02:12:01 PM »
Thanks everyone for the input...great to learn these things.