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Author Topic: Scanner on board  (Read 12003 times)
MIAMIATC
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« on: June 18, 2006, 09:39:12 AM »

Is it allowed to carry a scanner onboard your flights? Seconly is it allowed to be litened to during flight Huh Has anyone had experiences with such ?
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alphagolf81
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 09:47:42 AM »

It is allowed on board, but you aren't allowed to listen.    All ya gotta do is bring some headphones and hide the dang thing.  I do it all the time.  Although, I do have probs sometimes picking up the controllers.  Most the time I only hear da pilots which isn't really that exciting.
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Jason
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 10:24:25 AM »

Is it allowed to carry a scanner onboard your flights? Seconly is it allowed to be litened to during flight Huh Has anyone had experiences with such ?

You may carry a scanner on board, but it is not permitted to operate it on most airlines.  I've been able to hide it before, but the flight attendants on AirTran really know how to spot the thing well.

From American Airline's website:
Quote
Devices That Cannot Be Used on Board

    * Radios - AM, FM, VHF, battery or cord operated TV sets, TV cameras

    * Electronic games or toys with remote control, except those installed on the aircraft

    * Cordless computer mouse

    * Portable Global Positioning System (G.P.S.)

In the past (very long ago past by the way..) those electronic devices were shown to cause interference with avionic equipment in the cockpit.  It's not really the same case anymore where the avonics are now designed to resist the interference and the equipment that is not permitted really doesn't cause much of a threat to the safety of the flight. ...but that's just the way it is.

They say:
Quote
Certain devices used on board the aircraft, both on the ground and in-flight, may radiate electronic pulses affecting the aircraft navigational or communications equipment. While electronic disruptions in the cockpit are rare, they simply cannot be tolerated at any time.
although I don't sincerely believe that to be 100% true.  I'm sure lightning and thunderstorms cause much greater electric pulses than do a VHF-receiving radio scanner.

I know plenty of people who do it, and the worst that could really come of it is a flight crew member asking to turn the equipment off.

Good luck,
Jason
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 10:28:01 AM by Jason » Logged
jkaplan
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 09:21:10 AM »

AI agree that the possibility that more modern systems would actually be affected by a scanner in use is rather remote.  However, in a post 9/11 world, I would rather not find that the flight crew is in a bad mood at the moment they ask me what I am listening to!!!!
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FlyCMI
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 11:00:58 AM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.
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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 11:03:32 AM »

I would tend to think so also.
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tyketto
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 11:46:38 AM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.

Not entirely true.

What a scanner needs is line of sight with the either the RCO/RCAG, or the facility sending out the signal. If oyu don't have those, you're only going to get the pilot side of comms because you're closest to that.

I've wondered this quite a bit when I did the LAS-LAX run, when they handed the plane to LA Center Barstow sector. It was because there was no RCAG for that area, and the range from ZLA at Palmdale was far enough that it wasn't needed.

On the other hand, on the SMF-LAS run, I was able to pick up both pilot and controller side from Oakland Center high, over the Mina/Coaldale areas. That was because I had line of sight with the RCAG.

So it all depends on what your scanner has line of sight with, and the frequencies the controllers will be using.

BL.
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KMSY
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 12:06:12 PM »

Maybe a little off topic but...

I was discussing a 9/11 conspiracy video with some friends. One of the points the video made was that it was immposible to make a cell phone call from FL. It said they tested it with a C-152 at 8,000 and they got very minimal reception. You're almost 1.5 miles above the ground and possible a cell tower.

Do radio waves work differently up there? Is there some kind of atmospheric thing that screws with it? Does the video research make sense? Are the planefones in the back of the middle seat cell phones? I've never looked into it or tried to call anyone with either my cell or the phone on the plane.
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Jason
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 12:31:44 PM »

I was discussing a 9/11 conspiracy video with some friends. One of the points the video made was that it was immposible to make a cell phone call from FL. It said they tested it with a C-152 at 8,000 and they got very minimal reception. You're almost 1.5 miles above the ground and possible a cell tower.

The real problem is that your call is being bounced back and forth between many different cell towers and your call will keep getting dropped.  It depends on the area and how many cell towers are around, so YMMV.  This is why the use of cell phones is not allowed during flight per Federal Communication Commission rules.

That's not to say I've never made a cell phone call while flying a 172, but it doesn't mean I have either...  wink
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:34:51 PM by Jason » Logged
tyketto
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 01:44:34 PM »

Not only that, but the way that the signal is transferred comes into play.

Ever go out driving and find your town's radio station transmission tower? ever noticed how high the antenna is? That's because radio stations, cell towers, tv stations, etc. have to have line of sight with everything that it is broadcasting to, so it is generally seated where it can get the highest range for broadcast. In Las Vegas for example, that is on Black Mountain in Henderson, which is visible by the entire city. Either way, the transmission is done in a pyramid shape, where it goes from the top down.

Flip that upside down for ATC. the range is absolute at the transmitter but spreads out the further up and away you are from the transmitter. This is why a plane could contact the tower some 15 - 18 miles out on final, and you couldn't hear the tower unless you were about a mile or two from the airport.

Think of ATC and its range like a waffle cone. The further up and away it gets, the further out the transmissions can be heard.

BL.
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dave
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 07:53:07 PM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.

The issue is typically that the systems (A/C + other things) aboard the aircraft create so much man-made noise that the signal-to-noise ratio gets adversely impacted, limiting general reception of everything, including other planes.  A related fact is that it depends on which side of the airplane you're on and where the ground station or other plane is when you're trying to receive it.  Several factors at work here.

Dave
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blizzard242
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 03:52:25 AM »

Also the body of the plane blocks most of the signal, that is why planes have an external antenna. The body of the plane's body works like the metal roof on many stores and elevator shafts, it is growned so it blockes radio signal along with local sorces of electrical noise.
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Tomato
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 06:50:11 AM »

Don't oscillators have something to do with the interference that scanners generate?

I seem to remember hearing or reading about this somewhere and how it works... anybody with a little more insight?  Smiley
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Serving you with CYVR... =)
The Hoffspatcher
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 07:30:14 AM »

I once asked a turboprop Captain why I couldn't use my cellphone on the plane, he said it interfered with the ILS recievers.

If my scanner can beam to and upset the ILS recievers on the nose gear of a Boeing 747 then I AM worried!

As for using it on the plane, I'm just going to close my eyes and pretend I didn't see you take it onboard Smiley
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Glavata
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 09:20:28 PM »

This is why United AL have me as a loyal customer Smiley They provide you with the ATC Communication of your flight through the headphones.
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jacobtron
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2007, 10:12:59 PM »

I once asked a turboprop Captain why I couldn't use my cellphone on the plane, he said it interfered with the ILS recievers.

If my scanner can beam to and upset the ILS recievers on the nose gear of a Boeing 747 then I AM worried!

As for using it on the plane, I'm just going to close my eyes and pretend I didn't see you take it onboard Smiley

on mythbuster a few days ago they did the cell phone on a plane theory,they first made a model of the cockpit and all the interments they alll so used a cell phone generator to make the signel higher and it took the higest signel to make a differnce in the way it acted.then they did it on a real plane i can remmber the name (i am still learning types of aircraft) it was a full glass cockpit,thought they could not allow it up in the air the airline would not allow it (cant remmber name) and it did not do a thing they got it as high as it would possibly go and it did nothing,it was a cool episode i will see if they have more info on it.

click here for the episode i hop you like it
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 10:30:58 PM by jacobtron » Logged

flight 679:hey control I got a very bad problem.

controller:go ahead what is it flight 679.

flight 679:now that i got the airplane off of the ground how do i land it.
poj
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2007, 10:39:32 PM »

A cell phone, official known as a cellular mobile radio, is a transmitting device, licenced for certain operations. It it not licensed for aeronautical use (or marine for that matter), similar to using aircraft frequencies for chatting car to car down the interstate.
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penguin44
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2007, 03:53:10 PM »

As for the GPS rule, I have flown with West jet and Air Canada, and I asked if I could use it. They said they would ask the captain, he said no problem, "If we get lost, you can help us". he said with a smile and a huge laugh from some of the PAX. He said since the GPS only aquires and does not send signals, it was no problem. Quite cool too since those flights did not have the seat back map displays. Nothing like your GPS showing, current speed of 445mph and 40,000ft!!!
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kiwisteve
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2007, 02:28:35 PM »

I took my Dualband 2m + 70cm amateur transceiver once on an Air New Zealand Flight .  I asked if I could use it  and was told NO transmitters permitted while aircraft is flying  but on the ground was ok 

Steve
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dave
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2007, 10:58:45 PM »

Don't oscillators have something to do with the interference that scanners generate?

I seem to remember hearing or reading about this somewhere and how it works... anybody with a little more insight?  Smiley

Yes...scanners use phase-locked loop synthesizers to tune in all those frequencies...which need local oscillators to function.  That LO leakage is pretty minimal, though...very little chance that it can significantly interfere with an ILS receiver.  But not impossible.  Why tempt fate, though?  That's the way I've always looked at it.  smiley

dave
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KILG
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 05:41:44 PM »

On a United flight why do they tell you to turn off all electronic devices 10 min before take off and 10min before landing

And united allows you to use cellular phones anytime the plane is on the ground.
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jacobtron
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2007, 07:40:23 PM »

On a United flight why do they tell you to turn off all electronic devices 10 min before take off and 10min before landing

And united allows you to use cellular phones anytime the plane is on the ground.

i gusse becuse the objects dont mess around with the planes on the ground.
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flight 679:hey control I got a very bad problem.

controller:go ahead what is it flight 679.

flight 679:now that i got the airplane off of the ground how do i land it.
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