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Author Topic: Scanner on board  (Read 9438 times)
MIAMIATC
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« on: June 18, 2006, 09:39:12 AM »

Is it allowed to carry a scanner onboard your flights? Seconly is it allowed to be litened to during flight Huh Has anyone had experiences with such ?
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alphagolf81
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 09:47:42 AM »

It is allowed on board, but you aren't allowed to listen.    All ya gotta do is bring some headphones and hide the dang thing.  I do it all the time.  Although, I do have probs sometimes picking up the controllers.  Most the time I only hear da pilots which isn't really that exciting.
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Jason
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 10:24:25 AM »

Is it allowed to carry a scanner onboard your flights? Seconly is it allowed to be litened to during flight Huh Has anyone had experiences with such ?

You may carry a scanner on board, but it is not permitted to operate it on most airlines.  I've been able to hide it before, but the flight attendants on AirTran really know how to spot the thing well.

From American Airline's website:
Quote
Devices That Cannot Be Used on Board

    * Radios - AM, FM, VHF, battery or cord operated TV sets, TV cameras

    * Electronic games or toys with remote control, except those installed on the aircraft

    * Cordless computer mouse

    * Portable Global Positioning System (G.P.S.)

In the past (very long ago past by the way..) those electronic devices were shown to cause interference with avionic equipment in the cockpit.  It's not really the same case anymore where the avonics are now designed to resist the interference and the equipment that is not permitted really doesn't cause much of a threat to the safety of the flight. ...but that's just the way it is.

They say:
Quote
Certain devices used on board the aircraft, both on the ground and in-flight, may radiate electronic pulses affecting the aircraft navigational or communications equipment. While electronic disruptions in the cockpit are rare, they simply cannot be tolerated at any time.
although I don't sincerely believe that to be 100% true.  I'm sure lightning and thunderstorms cause much greater electric pulses than do a VHF-receiving radio scanner.

I know plenty of people who do it, and the worst that could really come of it is a flight crew member asking to turn the equipment off.

Good luck,
Jason
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 10:28:01 AM by Jason » Logged
jkaplan
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 09:21:10 AM »

AI agree that the possibility that more modern systems would actually be affected by a scanner in use is rather remote.  However, in a post 9/11 world, I would rather not find that the flight crew is in a bad mood at the moment they ask me what I am listening to!!!!
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FlyCMI
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 11:00:58 AM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.
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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 11:03:32 AM »

I would tend to think so also.
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tyketto
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 11:46:38 AM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.

Not entirely true.

What a scanner needs is line of sight with the either the RCO/RCAG, or the facility sending out the signal. If oyu don't have those, you're only going to get the pilot side of comms because you're closest to that.

I've wondered this quite a bit when I did the LAS-LAX run, when they handed the plane to LA Center Barstow sector. It was because there was no RCAG for that area, and the range from ZLA at Palmdale was far enough that it wasn't needed.

On the other hand, on the SMF-LAS run, I was able to pick up both pilot and controller side from Oakland Center high, over the Mina/Coaldale areas. That was because I had line of sight with the RCAG.

So it all depends on what your scanner has line of sight with, and the frequencies the controllers will be using.

BL.
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KMSY
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 12:06:12 PM »

Maybe a little off topic but...

I was discussing a 9/11 conspiracy video with some friends. One of the points the video made was that it was immposible to make a cell phone call from FL. It said they tested it with a C-152 at 8,000 and they got very minimal reception. You're almost 1.5 miles above the ground and possible a cell tower.

Do radio waves work differently up there? Is there some kind of atmospheric thing that screws with it? Does the video research make sense? Are the planefones in the back of the middle seat cell phones? I've never looked into it or tried to call anyone with either my cell or the phone on the plane.
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Jason
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 12:31:44 PM »

I was discussing a 9/11 conspiracy video with some friends. One of the points the video made was that it was immposible to make a cell phone call from FL. It said they tested it with a C-152 at 8,000 and they got very minimal reception. You're almost 1.5 miles above the ground and possible a cell tower.

The real problem is that your call is being bounced back and forth between many different cell towers and your call will keep getting dropped.  It depends on the area and how many cell towers are around, so YMMV.  This is why the use of cell phones is not allowed during flight per Federal Communication Commission rules.

That's not to say I've never made a cell phone call while flying a 172, but it doesn't mean I have either...  wink
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:34:51 PM by Jason » Logged
tyketto
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 01:44:34 PM »

Not only that, but the way that the signal is transferred comes into play.

Ever go out driving and find your town's radio station transmission tower? ever noticed how high the antenna is? That's because radio stations, cell towers, tv stations, etc. have to have line of sight with everything that it is broadcasting to, so it is generally seated where it can get the highest range for broadcast. In Las Vegas for example, that is on Black Mountain in Henderson, which is visible by the entire city. Either way, the transmission is done in a pyramid shape, where it goes from the top down.

Flip that upside down for ATC. the range is absolute at the transmitter but spreads out the further up and away you are from the transmitter. This is why a plane could contact the tower some 15 - 18 miles out on final, and you couldn't hear the tower unless you were about a mile or two from the airport.

Think of ATC and its range like a waffle cone. The further up and away it gets, the further out the transmissions can be heard.

BL.
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dave
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 07:53:07 PM »

So even though you're that high up, you still can't pick up controllers?  I thought since you are a  couple miles in the air you should be able to pick up controllers hundreds of miles away.

The issue is typically that the systems (A/C + other things) aboard the aircraft create so much man-made noise that the signal-to-noise ratio gets adversely impacted, limiting general reception of everything, including other planes.  A related fact is that it depends on which side of the airplane you're on and where the ground station or other plane is when you're trying to receive it.  Several factors at work here.

Dave
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blizzard242
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 03:52:25 AM »

Also the body of the plane blocks most of the signal, that is why planes have an external antenna. The body of the plane's body works like the metal roof on many stores and elevator shafts, it is growned so it blockes radio signal along with local sorces of electrical noise.
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Tomato
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 06:50:11 AM »

Don't oscillators have something to do with the interference that scanners generate?

I seem to remember hearing or reading about this somewhere and how it works... anybody with a little more insight?  Smiley
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Serving you with CYVR... =)
The Hoffspatcher
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 07:30:14 AM »

I once asked a turboprop Captain why I couldn't use my cellphone on the plane, he said it interfered with the ILS recievers.

If my scanner can beam to and upset the ILS recievers on the nose gear of a Boeing 747 then I AM worried!

As for using it on the plane, I'm just going to close my eyes and pretend I didn't see you take it onboard Smiley
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Ben Hoffman; BAv, ADX
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Glavata
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 09:20:28 PM »

This is why United AL have me as a loyal customer Smiley They provide you with the ATC Communication of your flight through the headphones.
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