Author Topic: Strange all sign  (Read 8063 times)

Offline dshore

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Strange all sign
« on: December 05, 2009, 07:28:52 PM »
Listening to Toronto ATC around 7:00 pm tonight I heard the following call sign...

"speedbird five alpha charlie" cleared to Messina.  What is the five alpha charlie all about, or did I hear something else ?

Thanks



kea001

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2009, 07:40:16 PM »
BAW5CA

British Airways "Speedbird" (United Kingdom) 5 Charlie Alpha

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW5CA




« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 08:02:41 PM by kea001 »

Offline dshore

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2009, 07:57:36 PM »
Thanks - but why is it not assigned a regular flight number like Speedbird 125 ?  Why the letters ?

kea001

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2009, 08:06:36 PM »
If you were to purchase a ticket, the flight is called BA 92

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByFlight.do?id=177668713&utm_source=airlineInformationAndStatus&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=co-op

Why the discrepancy? I don't know.

There's another thread of discussion here

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2594302/


which hints that it may have something to do with conflicting callsigns, more precisely, the conflict may occur at Heathrow between similar callsigns addressing ATC at the same time - something conflicting with BA (or Speedbird) 92.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 08:12:27 PM by kea001 »

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2009, 10:55:13 AM »
"SPEEDBIRD" is British Airways callsign.

BA5 is the callsing for BAs' Heathrow (EGLL) to Tokyo Narita (RJAA) route using a B747-400.

BA5CA is the  callsign for BAs' Toronto (CYYZ) to Heathrow (EGLL) route using a B767-300.

I also think it's due to conflicting callsings. The "CA" probably is in reference to Canada.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByFlight.do?id=177744414&utm_source=airlineInformationAndStatus&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=co-op

BA5CA:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW5CA

BA5:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW5
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 11:11:14 AM by joeyb747 »

Offline delta092b

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2009, 11:39:24 AM »
It is to do with conflicting callsigns. Not sure if for BA92 its the depature/enroute or arrival areas but I do know that KLM692 leaves YYZ for AMS within 15 minuts of BA92 and they likely take similar routings over to Europe.

Offline ect76

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2009, 12:40:42 PM »
I asked the exact same question here a few years back. As far as I know it is for conflicting callsigns.

It's particularly common in the UK where most if not all airlines do it.
A few examples are

Shuttle 8A (BA Connect)
Easy 40GF (Easyjet)
Mibland 8EH (BMI)

And the list goes on and on and on.

It's common for BA and their Shuttle and Flyer divisions, Easyjet, Flybe, BMI, Lufthansa and many many others. I've even heard a few US airlines do it when listening to Kennedy.

Have a listen to this clip to hear many more.

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/some-more-egph/

Offline JetScan1

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 09:15:16 AM »
Some more info .....

Quote
4. Numeric v. alphanumeric call signs

4.1. Many airlines continue to use their IATA commercial flight numbers as call sign suffixes. However, because
they tend to be allocated in batches of sequential and very similar numbers, call sign confusion occurs.

4.2. Several airlines have switched to alphanumeric call signs reasonably successfully in recent years. However,
if every operator adopts alphanumeric call signs, the limited choices available within the maximum of 4 elements
allowed within a call sign suffix means that call sign confusion, similar to the existing numeric system,
is likely to result.

4.3. Before changing to an effective all-alphanumeric call sign system, which involves a significant amount of
work, it is recommended that operators review their existing numeric call sign system to deconflict any similar
numeric call signs. Where there is no solution to those call signs that have a potential for numeric confusion,
alphanumeric call signs can be adopted.

http://www.eurocontrol.int/safety/gallery/content/public/library/AGC_action_plan.pdf


So far the only North American airline I've noticed that uses alphanumeric callsigns on a regular basis is SkyWest.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW82C/history/20091208/1212Z/KPHL/KMKE

« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 09:20:31 AM by JetScan1 »

Offline tyketto

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Re: Strange all sign
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 01:07:43 PM »

So far the only North American airline I've noticed that uses alphanumeric callsigns on a regular basis is SkyWest.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW82C/history/20091208/1212Z/KPHL/KMKE

UAL and AWE use them quite a bit as well.

BL.