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Author Topic: Terminology  (Read 9850 times)
bcrosby
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« on: September 14, 2005, 10:46:48 AM »

Just a few things that I hope someone can clarify.

What does it mean when an aircraft is designated as "heavy".

When an ATC asks an aircraft to climb at a "good rate", what does that mean?
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tyketto
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 11:53:38 AM »

Quote from: bcrosby
Just a few things that I hope someone can clarify.

What does it mean when an aircraft is designated as "heavy".


It is used to indicate a number of things. First off, 'heavy' indicates that the weight of the aircraft exceeds 255,000lbs. Those that do are B753s, B767s, B747s, B777s, B787s A330s, A340s, A350s, A380s, DC10s, L1011s, B2s, B707s, Antonov 25s (I believe that's the bird), and Concordes.

Secondly, this also means that the above planes generate a great amount of wake turbulence to those within its class, as well as smaller class aircraft (B737/A320 and below). Technically speaking, a B752 generates this as well, but does not exceed the 255,000lb weight limit[1].

Quote

When an ATC asks an aircraft to climb at a "good rate", what does that mean?


When an aircraft climbs, it is climbing at a particular rate of speed. Standard rate for climbs and descents is 1500ft per minute. When ATC asks for a good rate of speed, they are looking for a good rate that the pilots can get the plane to the altitude assigned without compromising the safety of the aircraft. If a plane could do 3000ft per minute, and do it safely, there's a good rate of speed for the climb.

BL.

[1] unless configured to be so, by request. Reference the B752s that ATA uses. They are configured to exceed that limit by request. So all of their B752s are deemed 'heavy'.
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bcrosby
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2005, 03:59:59 PM »

Thanks!

So the purpose of designating an aircraft as heavy is for which reason? Just to make ATC aware of wake turbulance that could affect smaller planes in its vicinity?
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davolijj
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 04:17:21 PM »

Controllers have to apply different separation standards to Heavy aircraft than they do non-heavies.  Also wake turbulance delays for aircraft departing behind a heavy jets cannot be waived by the pilot.  Small aircraft departing behind non-heavies can always request and be granted a deviation from any wake turbulance delays.
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JD
FlyCMI
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2005, 04:24:58 PM »

Also, a heavy sign lets the air traffic controller know that the plane will need more distance to turn than smaller planes, and usually it won't be able to climb as quickly.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 06:42:12 PM »

Quote from: bcrosby
So the purpose of designating an aircraft as heavy is for which reason? Just to make ATC aware of wake turbulance that could affect smaller planes in its vicinity?


I believe the designation has the added benefit of providing awareness to all other pilots on that frequency, too.

As a pilot of a small GA aircraft who one time inadvertantly crossed a 727 wake (perpendicular to it, fortunately - it jarred my aircraft like a large NY City pothole), I know my ears really perk up when I hear the heavy designation on the same frequency.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
frantzy
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 04:32:36 PM »

Quote


When an aircraft climbs, it is climbing at a particular rate of speed. Standard rate for climbs and descents is 1500ft per minute. When ATC asks for a good rate of speed, they are looking for a good rate that the pilots can get the plane to the altitude assigned without compromising the safety of the aircraft. If a plane could do 3000ft per minute, and do it safely, there's a good rate of speed for the climb.



Aren't these two separate things...rate of climb and rate of speed?  A good/best rate of climb would be to increase from 1500 fpm to 3000 fpm, good rate of speed would be forward speed, like 270 knots.  

Depends whether controller needs vertical or lateral spacing, but I've heard "Give me your best forward speed in the climb" and I assumed that to mean normal rate of climb + abnormally high forward speed in the climb.
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tyketto
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 05:24:10 PM »

Quote from: frantzy
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When an aircraft climbs, it is climbing at a particular rate of speed. Standard rate for climbs and descents is 1500ft per minute. When ATC asks for a good rate of speed, they are looking for a good rate that the pilots can get the plane to the altitude assigned without compromising the safety of the aircraft. If a plane could do 3000ft per minute, and do it safely, there's a good rate of speed for the climb.



Aren't these two separate things...rate of climb and rate of speed?  A good/best rate of climb would be to increase from 1500 fpm to 3000 fpm, good rate of speed would be forward speed, like 270 knots.  

Depends whether controller needs vertical or lateral spacing, but I've heard "Give me your best forward speed in the climb" and I assumed that to mean normal rate of climb + abnormally high forward speed in the climb.


Well, there's two different types since you're not limited to horizontal movement, thanks to gravity. Recall the speed formula:

speed = distance / time.

So with 1500fpm (standard rate), if he wanted best rate in the climb from the above example, his speed (vertically) would have increased.

In short, you're right, but I'm right too. cheesy

BL.
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Tom56
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 05:30:39 PM »

What does wasie level mean?
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davolijj
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005, 05:40:17 PM »

Quote from: BuZZ56
What does wasie level mean?

In what context?
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Regards
JD
digger
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005, 05:55:32 PM »

I googled wasie level. This was the 1st result:


Waypoint WASIE CA
44° 5' 32N 79° 17' 19W WASIE CA

Surprisingly, this was the second result:


http://www.liveatc.net/forum/about490.html

"I heard most flights to cross the WASIE fix level and at 200 knots or less..."

If there were a comma--"cross the WASIE fix, level and at 200 knots.."

Does it make sense now?
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Tom56
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 05:59:46 PM »

"maintain 10,000 cross wasie level"
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davolijj
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 07:12:57 PM »

Looks like digger's got your answer above.
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Regards
JD
Tom56
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005, 07:38:50 PM »

Ahhhhh, I thought it was some kind of location reference. It was throwing me
off because sometimes they say through wasie or across wasie.
Thanks for the replies.
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frantzy
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 07:42:01 PM »

Quote from: tyketto


In short, you're right, but I'm right too. cheesy

BL.


I can live with that!  cheesy

Mike
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