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Author Topic: Unprofessional ATC  (Read 7903 times)
Amante de Aviones
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« on: August 04, 2009, 01:12:51 AM »

Was listening to Nashville feed last night when a Cessna N5201Q was told to make a right on the runway but made a left and was taking off the wrong direction.  The ATC told him to stop and takeoff the other way.  After this was resolved and he got in the air, the atc was totally ripping the Cessna pilot about what happened on the air with what i believe to be a fedex pilot.  The Cessna ignored the departure controller and was listening in to the tower the whole time it was going on, which had to make the controller, regret what he said.  It was really crazy and unprofessional on both parts to me.
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bluecrewfan08
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 07:18:08 PM »

Do you have an approximate time?

Rob
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Amante de Aviones
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 09:37:54 PM »

around 11:30pm-12:00am CDT
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kea001
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 10:18:35 AM »

 undecided

These things are funny until the plane falls out of the sky and you realize the guy just had a stroke
and everything he was doing up to that point would have indicated he was having a stroke.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 10:28:12 AM by kea001 » Logged
djmodifyd
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 04:35:13 PM »

thats horrible
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coastflyfan
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2009, 05:15:50 PM »

I know that this post doesn't have anything much to do in regards to close calls at the Nashville Airport, but I lived in the Nashville area (south of Nashville) and recall seeing a special report on TV about tower controllers and stress. In fact, here's the link to that story.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7383595
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kea001
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2009, 07:13:50 PM »

I know that this post doesn't have anything much to do in regards to close calls at the Nashville Airport

IMAO....

No, I think your post is pretty relevant.

Humor is one way to cope with stress. This controller's reaction was just a natural expression of that.

Sometimes humor can be very beneficial in the workplace. Unfortunately in this case it wasn't. It just compounded an adversarial relationship between the pilot and the controllers which isn't very useful.

Is the humor constructive or destructive?

Think about how much better it would have been if he used humor with the pilot regarding his egregious error while asking probing questions to find out what the guy's state of mind was. Is he alert enough to be flying? Does he have any other symptoms that would make him reconsider taking off? He may or may not. It may have been just a stupid mistake. He may have let his mind wander. Who knows? The point is the controller and the pilot didn't have this conversation but perhaps should have.  

« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 07:17:48 PM by kea001 » Logged
Dave_B
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 03:52:45 PM »

Was listening to Nashville feed last night when a Cessna N5201Q was told to make a right on the runway but made a left and was taking off the wrong direction.  The ATC told him to stop and takeoff the other way.  After this was resolved and he got in the air, the atc was totally ripping the Cessna pilot about what happened on the air with what i believe to be a fedex pilot.  The Cessna ignored the departure controller and was listening in to the tower the whole time it was going on, which had to make the controller, regret what he said.  It was really crazy and unprofessional on both parts to me.

That is really bizarre. It's almost like they had some yokel working the position that was new to aviation, whether piloting or ATC.

Mistakes happen all the time - even what we may call "stupid" ones - and it floors me that this situation is so foreign to the controller that he would tie up the frequency with his yammering, quite possibly creating additional safety situations.

Those guys should be embarrassed. As for 01Q, the only thing I really fault him for is not changing freqs as requested. Then he would not have had the pleasure of hearing that hayseed, who probably was hoping that 01Q was indeed listening while he did his hanger-flying from his tower cab.
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Gonzilla
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 04:39:33 PM »

I am the controller that you are talking about.  I want to say that after that happened I went to my supervisor and
apologized for my unprofessional conduct during my shift.  Nothing is mentioned however, of the fact that the cessna
tried to takeoff with a little over 1200 feet of runway, and there was a B738 taxiing just past where he may or may not have been able to depart.  There was also a vehicle holding short of T3 for the B738.  So, I don't know how many people were aboard the B738, but it could have been alot worse of an evening then someone's feelings getting hurt.
I do not excuse my unprofessional conduct, however, I don't think anyone should be here judging someone and not
have all of the facts.  Firstly, he was given the 20C at S5 because he missed the turn for the approach end of 20C.  He said he was familiar and was taxiing at a high rate of speed.  I gave him the distance remaining and in the time of me handing the strip to the radar controller in the tower, he was taking off the wrong way.  I would apologize to the pilot if I could, but I cannot. 
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Gonzilla
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 06:47:57 PM »

And another thing, he was not told to make a right on the runway.  He was told to turn right heading 290.  Now, that usually means to turn to a heading of 290 after you depart, not on the runway.  So, he was supposed to make a slight left turn to join the runway, then depart, then make a right turn to 290.  He made a right turn on the runway and tried to depart. 
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Dave_B
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 07:12:57 PM »

What is there about any of this that explains your behavior, Godzilla? For anyone that wants to listen to the file, the thing speaks for itself. Draw your own conclusions.

Here is what I received from you at 3:45 PM CDT today via PM on this site:


How ya doin?  I am the controller (hayseed) that you were insulting in the forum.  My co-worker brought this to my attention.  I hate cowards who say things in forums about something they know nothing about and people they don't know.  I tell you what, I will gladly give you my address or meet you anywhere you would like so you can see who you are you are calling a hayseet.   Just name the time and place!  I hope to hear from you soon!


When are your anger issues and general mentaility going to result in an accident? Are you still workiong as a controller? I hope to hell not, for the sake of my fellow pilots.
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Gonzilla
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 10:35:33 AM »

Well, Dave_B, I am an old fashion kind of guy.  I believe that there should always be a price to pay for your actions.  You chose to come on this forum and call me names, and insult my professionalism and my ability as a controller.  Now you come on here and question my ability to work traffic due to "anger issues"?  Funny thing is, I am, and always have been, one of the more understanding controllers working.  I rarely if ever yell at the pilots, even when they mess up and do something dangerous.  I do understand that people make mistakes.  As I said above, I was unprofessional.  I paid my price at work for being unprofessional.  In my message to you, I just wanted you to meet me, see who you were calling names, and maybe you would think twice about insulting someone you don't know.  The episode in question on the file, always is in my head when I think about talking about someone on frequency, and can guarantee that this will never happen again.  Because you wanted to make my message to you public, well that just shows that you are a coward. 
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ogogog
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 01:11:04 PM »

Well, Dave_B, I am an old fashion kind of guy.  I believe that there should always be a price to pay for your actions.  You chose to come on this forum and call me names, and insult my professionalism and my ability as a controller.  Now you come on here and question my ability to work traffic due to "anger issues"?  Funny thing is, I am, and always have been, one of the more understanding controllers working.  I rarely if ever yell at the pilots, even when they mess up and do something dangerous.  I do understand that people make mistakes.  As I said above, I was unprofessional.  I paid my price at work for being unprofessional.  In my message to you, I just wanted you to meet me, see who you were calling names, and maybe you would think twice about insulting someone you don't know.  The episode in question on the file, always is in my head when I think about talking about someone on frequency, and can guarantee that this will never happen again.  Because you wanted to make my message to you public, well that just shows that you are a coward. 





Dude dont waste your time on THAT person ,as a newly retired controller(29 years,20 at ZAU and 5 C90)let him throw his stones its easy when thay have never been in the hot seat and deal with this day in and day out.you just may have saved this pilots life by this little ass chewing,he may think next time about his actions.i know no one wants to sound like that on the freq but sometimes stress dose that to you,and me.good luck.


OG
ATCS/retired

 
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dave
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 01:56:26 PM »

Guys, this is getting personal, if you want to keep snipping at each other please take it offline.

Thanks,
Dave
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cptkirk
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 12:49:22 PM »

Dave, sorry but I am going to try not to make this reply personal but comment on facts as I heard them on the recording. 

I think too much is being said in this thread about the controllers (Gonzilla) actions and not enough focus on what really was at the heart of this incident.  The pilots actions!  Afterall, what the controller did was after the fact.  The pilot IMO lost situational awareness and that and only that lead to the incident.  What caused his loss of SA will not be known.  I agree with others that the pilot may have had others issues going on and in his radio communications he sounds very distracted.  When asked why he was not responding to the departure controller he responded in some form that he was "just minding my own business".  No he was not!  his business should have been correcting what could have been signs of further distraction which can lead to a disaster.  His business should be flying the airplane.  Not listening in on the previous frequency to see what is being said about him.  Almost as if he does that all the time to hear what controllers and other pilots say about him.  Yeah, I know that a radio call may not be the most important thing, but is just another piece of evidence that the pilot was distracted.  he was focused on the conversation on the wrong frequency.  Distracted possibly by the incident that just occurred and he wanted to see if any action was going to be taken against him, maybe by some other medical issue, psychological issue, physiological issue, bad day at work.....who knows.

Can anyone think of a recent incident involving distracted pilots?

Do what ever you can do to get back in front of the airplane after something like that!  get your head back in the game.  Maybe that should be to turn around, land, breath and get your head in the game.  Or in this pilots case, don't take off once you realize that your taking off in the wrong direction!
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Kirk
ASEL Commercial & Instrument
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