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Author Topic: US Callsign Change  (Read 24483 times)
JALTO
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« on: September 02, 2008, 03:23:18 PM »

Just wondering what it has been like for the controllers out there, especially in Philly and CLT, trying to get used to the new Cactus call sign?  Any slips yet? 

-Jalto
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rpd
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 09:43:25 PM »

I've witnessed callsign mistakes on both the pilot and controller sides.  It would have made more sense if they just used the AWE three letter for the flight plans/ARTS (for the controllers anyway).
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w0x0f
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 10:46:00 PM »

I've witnessed callsign mistakes on both the pilot and controller sides.  It would have made more sense if they just used the AWE three letter for the flight plans/ARTS (for the controllers anyway).

I've seen the same thing and agree that AWE would have made the transition easier, at least for the controllers.  This ill-conceived procedure is typical of the USAirways/America West merger mess.  The Piedmont fiasco is looking like a huge success now.   

w0x0f 
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tyketto
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 11:56:03 PM »

I've witnessed callsign mistakes on both the pilot and controller sides.  It would have made more sense if they just used the AWE three letter for the flight plans/ARTS (for the controllers anyway).

I've seen the same thing and agree that AWE would have made the transition easier, at least for the controllers.  This ill-conceived procedure is typical of the USAirways/America West merger mess.  The Piedmont fiasco is looking like a huge success now.   

w0x0f 

In some ways, yes.. The European controllers would have no idea that AWE would be the AWE/USA company. They're used to seeing USA there, while AWE's last int'l flight was their ill-fated B742 service to Japan via HNL.

BL.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 12:12:34 AM »

I've witnessed callsign mistakes on both the pilot and controller sides.  It would have made more sense if they just used the AWE three letter for the flight plans/ARTS (for the controllers anyway).

I've seen the same thing and agree that AWE would have made the transition easier, at least for the controllers.  This ill-conceived procedure is typical of the USAirways/America West merger mess.  The Piedmont fiasco is looking like a huge success now.   

w0x0f 

In some ways, yes.. The European controllers would have no idea that AWE would be the AWE/USA company. They're used to seeing USA there, while AWE's last int'l flight was their ill-fated B742 service to Japan via HNL.

BL.


It's a Catch 22. I saw Cactus 734 Heavy depart last night to MAN. He sounded flawless with the callsign change all the way out of Philly. However, from what I read online. When he got to MAN, the Approach controller (or I guess Director  cheesy) kept calling him US Air. The first East crew to depart with the new callsign was USA1420 - PHL-CLT at 5:40am. He checked in with departure "Good Morning Departure, this is East Cactus 1420 we're out of 1000 for 5" I got a kick out of that.
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Steel_Anxiety
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 06:52:36 AM »

YES, BOSTON, BOSTON, BOSTON!!!!!!!

Every singe time they say US A...CACTUS!!!
Controllers and pilots alike, they really sound P/Oed about it too, cant really blame them.

Pilot: US...Cactus 1234 holding short...
Controller(Boston John):We will get used to it eventually.
Pilot:This is my 4th call sign change this year.
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keith
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 04:42:22 PM »

Just heard JFK Approach (CAMRN) having a helluva time with "Cactus 12". 4:38pm and 4:40pm EDT (2038 and 2040z). 

Edit: It continues at 4:43....4:44... 

"US Air 12, descend and maintain [altitude]"

*crickets*

"Cactus 12, descend and maintain [altitude]"
pilot responds as expected.

Controller says, "you're going to make me pay every time, aren't ya?"
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 04:45:44 PM by keith » Logged

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MIAMIATC
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 06:43:08 PM »

Well flight number 12 was always Cactus before the change so I think the pilot actually got a bit of a chip on his shoulder when the controller mentioned him as USAIR. Just like the east pilots I have been hearing have been giving some controllers here in Florida a hard time when mentioned as Cactus.
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jsapyta
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 12:11:04 AM »

Here in Cactus country, its always been Cactus for AWE and US Air the same.. So now am reading right, both AWE and USAIR are going to use Cactus for there flights?

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N7XLQ
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 12:13:09 AM »

Well flight number 12 was always Cactus before the change so I think the pilot actually got a bit of a chip on his shoulder when the controller mentioned him as USAIR. Just like the east pilots I have been hearing have been giving some controllers here in Florida a hard time when mentioned as Cactus.
but now on the radar screen it would have shown USA12 insted of AWE12 so thats y he might have called him USair
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cactushp
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 12:39:24 AM »

To clarify again,
USA = Cactus

Before September 1st:
USA = US Air
AWE = Cactus
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Scott Mulhollan
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Yegger
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2008, 02:26:04 AM »

Well flight number 12 was always Cactus before the change so I think the pilot actually got a bit of a chip on his shoulder when the controller mentioned him as USAIR. Just like the east pilots I have been hearing have been giving some controllers here in Florida a hard time when mentioned as Cactus.
but now on the radar screen it would have shown USA12 insted of AWE12 so thats y he might have called him USair

Exactly. This is tough because the code is so damn near the actual callsign phonteically... you see "USA" and it's so easy to just say US Air.
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Chananya Freedman
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 04:46:15 PM »

Hello there. Is AWE America West Airlines? And if so, what is the new call sign for AWE? Thanks.

Chananya
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2008, 06:24:41 PM »

Hello there. Is AWE America West Airlines? And if so, what is the new call sign for AWE? Thanks.

Chananya

Yes, AWE stood for America West. There is no new callsign for AWE. That ICAO is out the door.
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cactushp
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 08:15:59 PM »

Hello there. Is AWE America West Airlines? And if so, what is the new call sign for AWE? Thanks.

Chananya

I think what you mean is if America West exist. AWA does not actually exist, you see, neither does the old US Airways, as they merged in 2005.
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Scott Mulhollan
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MathFox
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2008, 05:01:32 AM »

I am currently listening to EHAM (Schiphol, Amsterdam) and just heard USA 799 check in as US Air 799... Is the callsign change restricted to America?
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tyketto
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2008, 03:54:56 PM »

I am currently listening to EHAM (Schiphol, Amsterdam) and just heard USA 799 check in as US Air 799... Is the callsign change restricted to America?

From my understanding, this should be worldwide.. interesting..

BL.
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MathFox
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 05:16:36 AM »

Schiphol ATC is aware of the callsign change too... and start using Cactus, still sometimes US Air is heard. The pilot threw in a few US-Cactus 799's, nothing special.
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ridejumpfly
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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2008, 11:30:05 AM »

You will notice Eagle flights are now using all 4 digits of flight number.  We were using the last 3 digits for a long time.
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cessna157
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« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2008, 10:24:54 PM »

ASA did the same thing a few months ago.  Comair just changed flight number ranges with DL, but callsigns still drop the first digit and add 1000 to thru flights.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 06:13:02 PM »

It looks like this will be addressed on the ATC side.  Starting 9/19/08 the "Cactus" 3 letter ID will be AWE.  USA will no longer be used.  It's like one of those timed brain games where they show you the word BLUE and the print is red and the question is "What color is the word?"  There was a lot of room for error.  Now if we can get the pilots to play along.

Here's the official notice:

  EFFECTIVE: 09/19/2008 – TIME 0800Z

CANCELLATION: 01/15/2009

SUBJECT:  CHANGES TO FAA ORDER JO 7340.2, CONTRACTIONS, CHAPTER 3, SECTIONS 1, 2, AND 3.

THE FOLLOWING ADDITION, CANCELLATION, MODIFICATION TO THE CORPORATE

TELEPHONY AND IDENTIFIER ASSIGNMENTS HAVE BEEN APPROVED.
THIS CANCELS GENOT RWA 8/20


MODIFICATIONS

COMPANY                                                                                             TELEPHONY                IDENT
FROM: US AIRWAYS (PHOENIX, AZ)                                               CACTUS                       USA
TO :  US AIRWAYS (PHOENIX, AZ)                                                    CACTUS                      AWE


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MathFox
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 06:29:36 PM »

I certainly hope they'll inform IATA and ICAO...
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/us-air-andgt-cactus-changed-in-icao-database/msg29036/#msg29036
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Yegger
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 08:04:50 PM »

"USA" makes so much more sense as an ICAO... oh brother.
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tyketto
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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 08:49:58 PM »

"USA" makes so much more sense as an ICAO... oh brother.

In this case, I'd agree.. but to play devil's advocate, the 2nd incarnation of National Airlines didn't resurrect the NAL ICAO code that the old Sunkings used to have.. they went with ROK and Redrock.

BL.
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2008, 08:27:09 PM »

im glad i don't have them.....

its hard enough that CHQ and EGF are now 4 letter calls signs......ie EGF4199 instead of EGF199.

its So hard to add the 4
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