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Author Topic: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)  (Read 8087 times)

Offline joeyb747

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USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« on: March 04, 2009, 10:55:34 AM »
Just in case anyone is interisted, Discovery Channel is airing a special on USAirways 1549 tonight at ten pm.

From Discovery.com:
"10:00 pm
(60 minutes)  Hudson Plane Crash - What Really Happened
TV-PG
Inside story of Flight 1549. How does a plane lose both engines over a city, and crash lands without a single death? New footage and exclusive interviews with crew, survivors, and rescuers tell the amazing story of survival."



Offline joeyb747

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 07:26:20 PM »
Anyone else catch the show on Discovery last night? Not bad...typical tv plane crash show.

One thing I find odd is that neither pilot pushed the DITCH button before hitting the river, one of the reasons the airplane sank so fast. The DITCH button is located on the overhead panel on the F/O side.  It closes vents and such to aid in keeping water out "in the unlikely event of a waterlanding"...  Pushing the DITCH button would not have prevented the sinking, as the contact with the water tore a hole in the aft fuselage, but it would have slowed it.

They said the pilots never pushed the DITCH button because the hadn't gotten that far in the checklist. Apparently its at the end.

I'm asking any pilots in this community of ours to reply to this:
If you knew you were going to ditch, regardless of where you were in the checklist, wouldn't you push the DITCH button just before making contact with the water? Are there items in the checklist that have to be done before you can press that button(turning the air system off, etc)? I know they have checklists for a reason, and they should be followed. Luckily, this event happened close to land. If it had been out in the middle of the ocean, keeping the airplane floating longer would help in locating the downed airplane.

I also noted only two rafts were used. I know the rear cabin doors were unusable, as they were under water. Does any one know for sure if US Airways keeps portable liferafts on board? If so, why weren't the utilized? Obviously, aircraft that fly trans ocean have extra rafts on board...just wondering.

 

Offline dave

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 08:50:49 PM »
joeyb-

I think it's perfectly OK to ask questions, but you need to have some perspective - the workload involved when a pilot is in an emergency situation is very high.  Not everything goes 100% by a predetermined, even if rehearsed, plan.

Everyone got home alive.  That is the most important thing for any flight.

Hopefully someone will answer your specific questions, but  I am sure many checklists go unfinished, especially in a jet that has precious little time to do what is undoubtedly most important - land the plane safely.

-Dave

Offline joeyb747

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 09:04:51 PM »
I totally agree. I was not trying to belittle the crews actions, or ruffle any feathers. I think they did an AMAZING job, and I would be happy to be on one of Sullys flights.

I guess the meat of my question was if you know you are going to ditch, wouldn't pushing the DITCH button be almost automatic? They also said that the checklist was not intended for ditching from 3000ft, but geared more towards gliding from cruise, where you would have more time to complete it.

I am not a pilot, but I do understand and respect the workload those guys were under. The F/O tried to resart the engines all the way down to 500 ft. Truly nobel effort. I don't think the outcome could have been any better.

I ment no offense in the nature of my post.


Offline cessna157

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 09:12:27 PM »
From what the crew said, pushing the ditch button wouldn't have helped them at all, because when they hit the water the tail section where the outflow valves are was torn open.  So in the end, no harm no fowl

Offline joeyb747

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 09:33:27 PM »
Hey cessna157, does your company, or any for that matter that you know of, have a shorter checklist for ditching on takeoff/climbout? Like I said above, the checklist the F/O was using was for ditching from higher altitude. Several airports are located near large bodies of water(KLGA, KJFK, KSFO, KDCA...just to name a few). I understand that form 3000 feet or so with no thrust capabilities, there isn't alot of time. I'm just wondering if a shorter checklist would help in these situations.

Say the impact had not ruptured the fuesalage. And the crew had not pushed the DITCH button. The airpane would sink just as fast wouldn't it? If help was farther away, and the weather just as cold, people would have surrvived the crash, only to drown waiting for rescue...thank God this one turned out the way it did.


kea001

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Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 07:25:39 AM »
no fowl

No fowl? lol.

When discussing Cactus 1549, it would more appropriately be harmed fowl. 

Offline sykocus

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 08:23:35 AM »


When discussing Cactus 1549, it would more appropriately be harmed fowl. 

That's just what they want you to think.

Offline cessna157

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 09:16:21 AM »
no fowl

No fowl? lol.

Heh heh, well at least somebody picked up on it.  Whatever happened to Slumcoe anyway?  Did the FBI take him in?

Offline cessna157

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 09:41:35 AM »
TO Get back to Joey's question, we have 2 layers of checklists (well, actually 3, but we'll group 2 of them into one).  There are memory items and QRH procedures. 

Memory items are just what it sounds like.  Things that must be performed from memory without having to pull out the book to look it up.  Time permitting, once the memory items have been completed and things are generally under control, you then pull out the QRH to run the full procedure which will have you go over what you just did, then a little more non-essential items.
Some memory items would be:  Rejected Takeoff, Double Engine failure, Reverser deployed in flight, Loss of all AC power, loss of braking on landing, evacuation, emergency descent, smoke/fire in the cabin, etc.

QRH procedures are broken down into 2 categories, but both are read from the checklist as you do them.  Any type of caution or warning message, system failure/abnormality, flight control problem, etc, has a QRH procedure.  (Just to give you a frame of mind for the book, it is over 300 pages)

"Ditching/forced landing" does not have any memory items on my airplane (it used to until they revamped the way we do our QRH procedures).  There are 2 reasons to this:  It happens so very rarely; and there really isn't a whole lot you can do about it.  The memory items had us turn off the air-conditioning system, depressurize the aircraft, then close the outflow valves. 

The actual QRH for ditching breaks down into planned and unplanned ditching (basically the 2 versions of the checklist depend on how much time you have).  The unplanned ditching has us shut down/secure the engines and APU, put the plane in the water, blow the fire bottles, and exit the airplane.  The planned ditching goes into a lot more detail about briefing ATC and passengers, securing all loose items, put on vests, disable warning systems, putting flaps down, shutting down some systems, manually depressurizing the aircraft, etc etc etc.

The way our QRH is broken down has immediate action items, then full procedures.  Immediate action items are the quick and dirty checklist, then we go into the full QRH and do even more.  This prevents us from having to memorize every emergency procedure.  The actual physical book construction allows us to pull the book out and open to the correct page within just 3-5 seconds.


Am I rambling?

Offline joeyb747

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 07:00:07 PM »
Thanks cessna157. Great info! Like I said, I am not a pilot(does flightsim count?? :wink:), and insight into what happens on a flight deck in any given situation interests me. Getting my pilots license is on my bucket list thou.  :-D

I spoke to my friend, the captain over at NWA (A330 and B747-400 type rated). He gave me some pretty good info.

Per The Captain:
In the NWA fleet, only the Airbus equipment (A319, A320, A321 and A330) have the ditch button. The Boeing and McDonnell Douglas types do not.

His theory is that it was intentional that they didn't push the ditch button. Since they were at such a low altitude, They did not have time to completely depressurize the airplane. Had they pushed the Ditch button, as we've discused, it would have sealed the airplane, making it next to impossible to open the doors after splashdown. He says on the A330, you have to depressurize the airplane (when safe to do so) BEFORE you press the ditch button.

This is his theory. Just thought I'd share it.
   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:07:13 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline joeyb747

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Re: USAirway 1549 Special on Discovery Tonight (03/04/09)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 07:16:34 PM »
Oh, by the way...
The Captain also said he's heard of several incidents involving A320 series aircraft with CFM56 powerplants having birstrikes, or other phenomenon that shut down an engine. It has something to do with the EEC sensing drastic changes in N1 speed due to ingestion of foreign material, shutting it down, and not "allowing" the engine to be restarted, making a double engine out situation unrecoverable on that particular engine configuration. I don't recall all the details, but he says this is a big problem for Airbus and CFM. Apparently they are working on a solution.

Has anyone else heard about this?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:25:26 PM by joeyb747 »