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| | |-+  What's this Kinarsy (sp?) Climb at JFK?
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Author Topic: What's this Kinarsy (sp?) Climb at JFK?  (Read 5149 times)
JMassey699
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« on: April 11, 2007, 06:13:47 AM »

Hey guys.

I generally listen to the JFK Tower feed and recently, I've heard the controllers tell the pilots about a Kinarsy (sp?) Climb (pronounced kin-AR-see).

What is this?  I hadn't heard this until the last couple of days or so.
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Chrizz
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 06:17:44 AM »

Quote
The Canarsie climb is so named because, at around 400' AGL you turn left toward the VOR of the same name, located upon a spit of land jutting out from the neighborhood of the same name, a portion of the borough of Brooklyn. The procedure itself calls for a further left turn over the VOR, to track outbound on the 176 radial.

I think it's just a departure procedure mainly used for noise abatement, but I'm not really sure. That quote above was found here using Google.
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The Hoffspatcher
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 08:30:41 AM »

It's spelt Canarsie - its the name of both a VOR (CRI) and a neighborhood in Brooklyn and is only used off Rwy 31L.

The procedure requires you turn left within JFK 4.5 DME and east of the CRI R-076 to establish outbound on the CRI R-226 for both noise abatement and so you don't interfere the LGA departure flows off of 22/31 or the arrival flows onto Runway 4.

It's part of all the non RNAV JFK DP's ... you can find it on the NACO charts & Jepps.
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Ben Hoffman; BAv, ADX
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JetScan1
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 09:06:10 AM »

There's also the Gateway, Bridge, Breezy Point, Idlewild Climbs.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/00610KENNEDY.PDF

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/00610KENNEDY_C.PDF

DJ
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dan9125
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WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 12:29:37 PM »

If you want to experience the approach click here


pretty cool video

 Dan
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Tomato
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 03:53:19 PM »

That is a cool video, you rarely ever see a real video of an approach... there's all-you-can-watch game simulation ones though.
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Serving you with CYVR... =)
Himerzi
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 06:41:13 PM »

Is a climb the same thing as a dp (departure procedure), or are they two separate things ? huh
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SkyViking
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 10:25:26 PM »

The climb off 31L/R requires the aircraft to turn left as soon a airborne and head to the Canarsie VOR, adjacent to JFK.  Usually this is a 90' left turn from the runway heading.  To answer your question, they are two very separate procedure, using the same Canarsie VOR as a reference point.  Arrivals may use a specific outbound radial to carry out an app. while departures may go direct to the VOR (as "Chrizz" explained).
It is awesome to see heavies execute this manouver.  Even more exciting when Concorde flew the "Canarsie Climb."
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 10:43:28 PM »

Is a climb the same thing as a dp (departure procedure), or are they two separate things ? huh

The climbs "is/are" the DP.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 10:19:14 AM »

Is a climb the same thing as a dp (departure procedure), or are they two separate things ? huh

The climbs "is/are" the DP.

For those who are keeping score at home, I know that it may be difficult to keep up with the most recent nomenclature, but we have returned to calling a DP a SID.  For those who weren't following ATC way back in the 20th century, Standard Instrument Departure (SID) was the approved name.  Someone that needed to justify his existence at FAA HQ decided to change that name to Departure Procedure (DP.)  More than likely a different person, because they change jobs so quickly in DC, decided to justify his existence and return to the SID.

I would venture to guess that a different "existence justifier" decided it would be a good idea to change the use of the word "shall" in thousands of FAA documents to "must."  It will cost plenty, I'm sure, to make all of these clerical changes.  Those who are familiar with FAA documents know how often the word "shall" is used.  I wonder how many controllers they could hire instead?

I won't even start with the disaster which is TIPH.

Rant over.

I feel much better.  Thank you.   wink

w0x0f
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JetScan1
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 01:53:06 PM »

As far as I know JFK and LGA are the only US airports that use the term "Climb" in their SIDs. Are there any other airports that use the term "Climb" ? All other US airports I'm familiar with use the term "Transition", for example departing Orange County (SNA) on the Anaheim 3 SID you have the Ventura Transition (heading 240) and the Hector Transition (heading 330). I'm guessing maybe that JFK and LGA use "Climb" because there are also minimum climb gradient restriction specified ? The Canarsie Climb for example specifies a minimum climb gradient of 440 feet per nautical mile to 2500 feet, while the Bridge Climb specifies 534 feet per nautical mile. Hence the term "Climb" ? DJ   
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EivlEvo
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 01:05:01 AM »

SID's (Standard Instrument Departures) and DP's (Departure Procedures) Most certainly DO NOT begin as soon as airborne. Neither of these or any other maneuver would be executed without direction from the tower until at least 400ft MSL.

If you wanted to request this you would need to ask for the Kennedy One Departure with the Canarsie Transition or Canarsie climb or whatever BS NOS has made up on here.

Im pretty sure you would need to list it as a transition, regardless of what purpose it serves.

Meh... Im mad at ATC tonight... can u tell?

~DAVE
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w0x0f
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 01:22:23 AM »

Meh... Im mad at ATC tonight... can u tell?

~DAVE

[on Dave's return to the ship, after HAL has killed the rest of the crew]
HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

2001: A Space Odyssey

Sorry Dave, I couldn't resist.

w0x0f
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EivlEvo
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 12:55:29 AM »

LMAO!
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curious
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 11:33:55 PM »

JMassey,

I've been curious about this Kinarsy climb for several nights.  Now we at least know how to spell it correctly thanks to these fine boards.
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