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Author Topic: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?  (Read 44624 times)
chefnoel
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« on: March 26, 2008, 10:40:54 PM »

A friend of mine has a young son (21 ish) that is uncertain about what profession he should pursue.   I suggested Air Traffic Controller.  He lives near New Berne, North Carolina.  Are there any schools in that area or where else are there schools.

Thanks all for your assistance.
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 12:58:43 AM »

heres all the ATC-CTI (collegiate training initaitive) schools:

University of Alaska Anchorage - Alaska
Mt. San Antonio College - California
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University - Florida
Miami-Dade College - Florida
Purdue University - Indiana
Minneapolis Community & Technical College - Minnesota
Daniel Webster College - New Hampshire
Vaughn College - New York
Dowling College - New York
University of North Dakota
Community College of Beaver County - Pennsylvania
Inter American University of Puerto Rico
Middle Tennessee State University
Hampton University - Virginia

Some of the best of those are North Dakota, Beaver County, Alaska, and Purdue

Personally, i am currently an ATC student at Beaver County and i love it here! 

I think it all depends on what they want to do, if they just want to get an associates degree in ATC, or if they would rather go to a 4 year program and get a bachelors degree in a different field like Aviation management, airport management, etc with an ATC minor.   

here is my email, NAplaya16@comcast.net, if you or your friends son has any questions!

-NAplaya
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 01:01:11 AM by NAplaya16-ATC » Logged
MathFox
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2008, 10:16:26 AM »

A friend of mine has a young son (21 ish) that is uncertain about what profession he should pursue.   I suggested Air Traffic Controller.
Does he have the capabilities and the motivation? The quickest and cheapest way into ATC is applying directly with the FAA.
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tyketto
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2008, 01:43:23 PM »

Doesn't ERAU in Prescott, AZ also have the ATC course, or is it only in Daytona?

BL.
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2008, 07:08:12 PM »

Im not sure bout the Prescott branch, but i do know that they have some sort of branch at Miami Intl.  i visited Miami-Dade and on the entry there is a sign that reads "Embry Riddle Aeronautical School."   I know they have one in Daytona, but whatever this branch is, its at Miami Intl Airport.

-NAplaya
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ATCWanAaB
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2008, 07:41:39 PM »

I am a ATC Major at ERAU right now. The Prescott campus does not currently have an ATC program, but they are pursuing it heavily right now. I think they will have one soon.

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mk
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 10:27:13 PM »

although ERAU is probably one of the most expensive options to becoming an Air Traffic Controller, i would highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend Riddle.  One of the few schools where you can get a 4 year degree from a well known aeronautical school.  Given, FAA doesn't care, but if you wash out, or want to become faa management one day, a degree from ERAU in Air Traffic Management wouldn't hurt your chances if you know what i mean.  The classes are pretty competitive, and the instructors do well getting their students to try to be the best.  ERAU, UND, Beaver CC, and one i am drawing a blank on are the best in the business.  Riddle won't even send your name or info to the faa if you can't swing a B average.
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ATCWanAaB
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 12:11:55 AM »

Well actually, Riddle will send your name to the FAA if you complete the program with a C average or better. But that is really beside the point. Riddle, along with UND, have state of the art simulators and the best professors. I have heard fantastic things about the Beaver County program. I guess the get you in a real tower working traffic. Not sure how their EnRoute and Tracon sims are.

My experiences at Riddle have been great. 
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cactushp
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 12:36:09 AM »

You also have to consider the new CTI schools that have recently been certified. Arizona State University, for example, already has a highly established professional pilot program at Phoenix-Mesa Gateway (IWA), and their Air Traffic Management program is at the same location. Also ATM students at ASU get to go at an internship at the P50 TRACON/PHX ATCT to fulfill their internship requirement.
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Scott Mulhollan
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moto400ex
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 01:08:55 AM »

UND is as voted by several ATC supervisors and managers the best school.  Im sure ERAU is not far behind.
I can personally tell you the equipment and instructors at UND are top notch and come from several different ATC backgrounds.  Plus, its half the price of attending ERAU.  Biggest downside, LOCATION.
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2008, 02:33:51 AM »

ATCWanaab,

you are correct! students at beaver graduate in 1 year, by going straight through.  (fall to fall, spring to spring, summer to summer, winter to winter, all with good break times too).  students get to go up into the tower at beaver county airport (kbvi) and work real traffic during their final 2 semesters.   im only a 2nd semester, so im counting down the days till i get up in the tower next semester.

however, the simulators at beaver are good training sims, but they are old!  their tracon sims amd enroute sims are dated back to 1990-1991, so id easily lay money down saying that UND, Riddle, and whoever else prolly has better, more modern ones.   however, beaver is supposed to be updating all their equi[ment within the next year, so hopefully, the new stuff will be 10x better!

-NAplaya
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mk
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 11:31:42 AM »

Riddle must have changed the policy then. i graduated back in fall '04 and you had to have carred a 3.0 gpa through the ATM courses.   

it would be cool if riddle or other cti schools had a tower like beaver.  i work with several BVI students and everyone matches up just fine with the huge schools like UND and ERAU.   however, 2 of them have washed out before making it to the floor b/c they thought they were better than the rest of us b/c they had a "cto" from a real tower.    i've met so many cti's over the past 2 years and it seems to me it doesn't matter where you go, just learn what you can, and the faa will level the playing field one you get the job. 
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davolijj
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 01:14:29 PM »

however, the simulators at beaver are good training sims, but they are old!  their tracon sims amd enroute sims are dated back to 1990-1991, so id easily lay money down saying that UND, Riddle, and whoever else prolly has better, more modern ones.   however, beaver is supposed to be updating all their equi[ment within the next year, so hopefully, the new stuff will be 10x better!

I'd agree with you about the Approach Control Lab at Beaver, it's old, runs on Windows 3.xx on 486 desktops.  When I was there we couldn't even find computers to use to backup the hardware.  However it does a very good jub of simulating ARTS-3a and the interface among sectors in the lab is something newer software is still trying to duplicate.

The EnRoute lab is brand new (2004) and is the exact same system Embry Riddle uses for their EnRoute lab, made by Adacel.  It sucks.  I believe the software was written by people with very little operational experience and it does a poor job of simulating DSR.  The administration there had buyer's remorse about a week after it was installed.

Last I heard Beaver was in the process of taking bids on a complete new equipment upgrade for every option in the program.  It will have a 270 degree tower sim (for those IFR days in the tower), and Enroute/approach sims which are much more realistic than what is currently being used.

Riddle must have changed the policy then. i graduated back in fall '04 and you had to have carred a 3.0 gpa through the ATM courses.  

it would be cool if riddle or other cti schools had a tower like beaver.  i work with several BVI students and everyone matches up just fine with the huge schools like UND and ERAU.   however, 2 of them have washed out before making it to the floor b/c they thought they were better than the rest of us b/c they had a "cto" from a real tower.    i've met so many cti's over the past 2 years and it seems to me it doesn't matter where you go, just learn what you can, and the faa will level the playing field one you get the job. 

I don't believe any simulator can or will ever measure up to the kind of training you get at a real VFR tower.  Basic fundamentals such as clearances and aircraft recognition are such an important part of working in the tower that students are forced to learn and retain this information, unlike just learning it for a test.  Students also get the real experience of talking over the frequency, active listening, thinking on the fly, and coordinating with an FAA approach control facility.  It's not easy, and during my time there the washout rate in the tower was 15-20%, so ideally Beaver grads have already been screened and should be less likely to wash out of FAA facilities.  Every semester however, some always seem to slip through the cracks and my guess is the ones who washed out of your facility shouldn't have made it through Beaver.

And by the way, Beaver DOES require a 3.0 in the facility rating classes to be recommended for CTI.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 01:16:04 PM by davolijj » Logged

Regards
JD
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 06:17:25 PM »

I personally go to Daniel Webster College in NH. I am not an ATC major personally but I have many friends in the program and they say that they really like it. The majority of them are getting send to Oklahoma right after graduation. The best thing to do is tour the school to see if the area meets what you want out of a college experience. But, if you are going on education and hands on learning only then I think DWC is a great choice. Here is an article with more info on the program.

http://www.dwc.edu/news/2007-2008/ATC.shtml
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ATCWanAaB
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 06:53:06 PM »

I wish Riddle had a stricter requirement to be recommended. 3.0 or 3.2 would be better. I don't keep myself fully up to date on the names of the companies that have made our sims, but Riddle just got a new EnRoute Sim a year ago. So I don't know if it is still Adacel.

I think Riddles new EnRoute Sim is awesome. (Not that I would know how good it is.) But the 2 guys from ZDC that are working in that sim with us say they like it. (But they might just be saying that.)

What I do know is that it is that we are working Memphis Center Sector 66, which is the same sector you work at OAK. This is a huge advantage.

Are other schools using that sector in their EnRoute classes?
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davolijj
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 09:28:44 PM »

I wish Riddle had a stricter requirement to be recommended. 3.0 or 3.2 would be better. I don't keep myself fully up to date on the names of the companies that have made our sims, but Riddle just got a new EnRoute Sim a year ago. So I don't know if it is still Adacel.

I think Riddles new EnRoute Sim is awesome. (Not that I would know how good it is.) But the 2 guys from ZDC that are working in that sim with us say they like it. (But they might just be saying that.)

What I do know is that it is that we are working Memphis Center Sector 66, which is the same sector you work at OAK. This is a huge advantage.

Are other schools using that sector in their EnRoute classes?

My understanding is that Riddle got their Adacel system in 2003.  And yes, Beaver also uses JAN-LO, Sector 66 for both non-radar and Radar Associate.

Why are there 2 guys from ZDC in yor class at Riddle?  I'm assuming they're not controllers, Remote Pilot Operators, maybe?  Take RPO opinions with a grain assault, they have the illusion of having knowledge of center ops but they have DySim experience only.
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JD
NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 10:31:48 PM »

All i know is that beaver needs to update their approach control lab sims.   im not familiar with their enroute sims, just because im in training for terminal.

Whats the curriculum at these other CTI schools?

Beaver's curriculum format goes like this:

*This is for Terminal ATC's*

1st semester:  16-17 Credits
English Composition 1
Social Science Elective
College Algebra or Physical Science
Flight Theory
Aeronautical Knowledge
Private Pilot (they make all their ATC's earn their Private license during this semester)

*If students already come into the program with their private license, they dont have to take Flight theory, aeronautical knowledge or the whole private pilot training, so basically, students who already have their license are admitted as 2nd semester students)   (they call it a "Quick Start")

2nd semester:  (17 credits)
English Comp 2
Social Science Elective
Advanced ATC III
Aviation Meteorology
Theory of Instrument Flight

3rd semester:  (16 credits)
Facility Rating I
Approach Control I
Logic
Social Science Elective

*During this semester, terminal students get to go into the tower and work flight data and ground only*

4th semester:  (13 credits)
Facility Rating II
Approach Control II
Introduction to Information Technology or ATC Interniship

*During this semester, students get to work local control*

For Enroute students, their curriculum is pretty much the same, except that in 3rd semester, they'll take Non-Radar Lecture and Non-Radar Lab.  And in their 4th semester, they take Radar Lecture and Radar Lab.

-NAplaya
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ATCWanAaB
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2008, 12:33:20 AM »

The two guys from ZDC are former controller. They are NOT our teachers because they do not meet the state accreditation standards to be professors. But they basically teach the class. They are not "In our class". 
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DairyCreamer
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2008, 03:01:24 AM »

Take it from me.

DO NOT BLOW YOUR $$$ ON A CTI EDUCATION IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO

Right now, unless you're just getting out of high school and know 100% for dam|\| sure you want to be a controller, don't bother with the CTI route.  Go to college if you want to get a degree, but keep the ATC thing to a minor at most.  There will be more public openings before too long, certainly sooner than the average CTI degree would allow.

Riddle is a joke for its expenses.  If anyone wants to go there and spend $100k there, get a REAL aviation degree with a minor in ATC.  Don't go in with all your eggs in the ATC basket, that's absolutely foolish considering the state of the FAA right now.

Remember... a check in the box from a CTI program can cost you tens of thousands of dollars, but in the FAA's eyes, it only allows you to skip 5 weeks of paid basics training at OKC, which frankly a lot of CTI students would do well to take as a refresher anyway.  With as desperate as the FAA is for people, in the forseeable future, OTS and CTI hires have nearly an equal ~100% chance of getting an interview.

~Nate

NOTE - Not dispariaging the educational qualities of CTI programs, indeed, I was ready to enter one myself.  But seriously, don't bother with the whole CTI thing if you're just looking to get hired by the FAA.  Do it for the "greater good," i.e., backup in case you can't or don't want to do ATC for 20-25+ years as a career.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 03:04:28 AM by DairyCreamer » Logged
FlySafe
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2008, 05:28:52 PM »

Ditto, DairyCreamer..

I have 3 VRAs, 2 CTIs, 1 FSS transfer and one off the street (no experience) at my facility.  There really is no difference in "advantage" with CTIs, they have "some" experience but much has to be unlearned, you do have a majority of your meager paycheck going to pay student loans.  Do the math...

VRAs are getting compensation (Veterans Benefits) to attend OKC and complete OJT.  Best bet, if you are going to invest 3-4 years, join the AF or Navy get ACT experience and use you veterans preference.  You get paid to train in the military, and paid to train in the FAA.
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Natasha  
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2008, 01:46:06 AM »

quick question, i was going to attend riddle in daytona as a new student for the summer a term (may). i made the choice of wanting to go there because a lot of the people i talked to said i would end up paying the same amount of money if i moved out to go to school somewhere else (i live 20mins from daytona). im also going to be a 'transfer student' dropping the amount of credits needed from 120 to just 90. even with that though, im sure i would still be paying a fortune.

ive been hearing a lot about "off the street" trainees lately and i was wondering how i can get more info on this? if it saves me the trip / money of going to school (especially riddle) then i would personally rather do this. because if everyone ends up getting the faa training at the Oklahoma  facility (whether you went to school or not) then whats the point?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 01:53:07 AM by AirK » Logged
Canadian eh
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2008, 05:18:52 AM »

wow a 100k for your education? what can i say, move to canada. $214 to write the test and if your good enough you'll get a interview, get through that and be put on a waiting list to start training, your name stays on it for 2 years. the list always grows and they only take to top from the list. everytime they run a course at one of the acc's across canda they start at the top of the list and offer spots til they are full.
if you apply for IFR control, you pay $3500 and that pays for all books and materials, you have to move to whichever city the acc's your starting at is located. you pay for all living costs and your course lasts from anywhere between 8-13 months until you go on payrol($33700 training wage) and start on the job training that lasts 6-12 months. it's 8 hours a day and your lucky to get anything more than stat days off(eg. i started 18 months ago, was off for 10 days at xmas a month into the course and since then have had one strech of 7 days off in a row. we don't take days off while training, ever.) after checking out you start at $80k-82k (just went up at the start of the month from $79k) and depending which center you work out of you get a bonus of up to a max of $18k because of traffic volume.
vfr control, you pay $3500 and they send you to school in cornwall, ON. they pay room and board, all books and materials and then move you out to where ever your getting stationed for your paid on the job. salsry? can't remember but it's between a ifr and fss. just a geuss from memory but think it starts around 50 or 60k
fss (flight service) $2500 or $3500 and same as vfr, go to ON< they pay room and board , all books and materials until the move you out for paid on the job. think it starts around 35k.
i think that sounds better than paying through the nose in the states. just a fun fact for you all, until about 4 or 5 years ago they use to send all trainies to cornwall and you paid $3500. they paid for your move there, room and board, all books and material, ship your car out there if you wanted, fly you out there and to top it off the paid all trainies $50k a year to train right from the get go.
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AirK
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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2008, 09:55:12 AM »

hey skip, any links to point us to the right direction? my google skills are horrible tongue

*edit* is www.navcanada.com what you're talking about?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 09:57:06 AM by AirK » Logged
Canadian eh
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2008, 11:40:22 AM »

heres the site http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=en&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles/default.xml
then on the right side is careers. a company called SHL is on contract for our recruitment until aug of this year and then it looks like we will do our own. if that link don't work let me know.
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ATCWanAaB
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2008, 12:36:52 PM »

AirK, I encourage you to thoroughly research "off the street" possibilities for becoming a controller. I know of two people personally who are taking that route.  If you go to:

 1) http://Jobs.Faa.Gov

 2) click on "All Opportunities"

 3) Where is says "Open to" select "non-Federal employees"

 4)  Where is says "Series" select "2153"

 5) hit "Search"

A few hits come up...

The one that has "CTO" in it is for people who already have Control Tower Operating certificates.

The one that has "RMC" in it is for Retired Military Controllers.

The one that says "CTI" is for students who have graduated from a Collegiate Training Initiative school such as Riddle.

The one that says "PUBNAT2" is for the general public like you. If I am not mistaken, just apply. But you have to meet either the "Work requirements" or the "Education requirements" which you can read about if you click on that link. I'm going to venture a guess and say that you have yet to meet either of those requirements, but I could be wrong. 

VRA means "Veteran Readjustment Appointment"


All these are called "advertisements" and they are not always there. For the longest time, there was NO PUBNAT advertisement showing, meaning that "off the street" people could not even apply. This particular one is only open until May 2. Apply now because who knows how long it will be till another advertisement is posted.


By the way, I love Riddle. Sure the money sucks but the education is great (as I'm sure UND and Beaver and all those others are too).

Peace
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