Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 24, 2014, 07:19:31 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: LiveATC.net Flyers Released!  Please click here to download & print a copy and be sure to post at an airport near you!


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Listener Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  What planes are regarded as heavies?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: What planes are regarded as heavies?  (Read 7370 times)
RIVERSMVP09
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« on: February 17, 2009, 01:47:37 AM »

I know 747s, Dc10s, and L1011s are.
Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 913


« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 03:15:21 AM »

I know 747s, Dc10s, and L1011s are.

EDIT: The Search button above is your friend. Smiley

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/quick-question-about-'heavy'/
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/the-term-'heavy'/
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/heavy/

BL.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 03:18:30 AM by tyketto » Logged
atcman23
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367



« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 07:36:00 AM »

I know 747s, Dc10s, and L1011s are.

By definition, any aircraft that weighs over 255,00 pounds, whether or not they are operating at that weight at the time of flight, is considered a heavy.

The Boeing 757 is not a heavy, but if it is the leading (or, preceeding) aircraft, it is treated like a heavy for wake turbulence purposes.  If it is the trailing (or, succeeding) aircraft, then it is a large aircraft.  The links posted above are helpful too.  smiley
Logged

Mark Spencer
air727
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 08:37:08 AM »

That's not correct. A heavy aircraft is one that is in excess of 300,000 lbs on takeoff.
Logged
air727
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 08:47:22 AM »

Actually you can disregard my last post. There have been amendments to the 300,000 rule. It is 255,000
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 09:20:49 AM »

I know 747s, Dc10s, and L1011s are.

By definition, any aircraft that weighs over 255,00 pounds, whether or not they are operating at that weight at the time of flight, is considered a heavy.

The Boeing 757 is not a heavy, but if it is the leading (or, preceeding) aircraft, it is treated like a heavy for wake turbulence purposes.  If it is the trailing (or, succeeding) aircraft, then it is a large aircraft.  The links posted above are helpful too.  smiley

In addition to that: 757-300's are heavies. Also some operators of 757-200's add aux fuel tanks which boost their weight into the category of heavies. The now defunct ATA is one I know of personally that did this.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 01:32:00 PM by sykocus » Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
jmcmanna
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 02:24:43 PM »

Talking to a couple of other ATCs who have worked in a variety of Center and Terminal facilities throughout their careers, none have ever seen a heavy Boeing 757-200.  The FAA does not publish anything anywhere that I have ever seen that said a Boeing 757-200 is anything other than a Large for weight categories.  Through the many, many hours of wake turbulence training, CBIs, reading materials, tower training, and radar training, the 757-200 has always been a Large, not a heavy. 

I don't have any way to collect a bet through this forum, but the challenge is there for anyone to find some sort of material dated any time in the last, say, 2 years, that the Boeing 757-200 has been classified as a heavy in the USA and post it on here, thereby making a fool of my outrageous statements that a B752 is never a heavy.
Logged
Ion the Sky
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 04:14:48 PM »

Does anyone remember the Super Heavies? C5, 747, DC10's
Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 913


« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 04:26:07 PM »

James,

I know for a fact that ARA expressly requested that their B752s be configured to exceed the 255,000lb limit. I'm trying to find something official on that, but they were always referred to as heavy when I was at LAS Tower. A photographer mentioned something about it at A.net as well:

http://tinyurl.com/cv76e6

I'll try to dig up more on how ATA set up their 752s.

BL.

Logged
jmcmanna
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 04:58:19 PM »

I have checked on Boeing's website and Wikipedia, but haven't been able to come up with anything over 255,000lb MTOW yet.  I am seriously looking, because it would be the first heavy B752 for the controllers here.  ATA had a bunch of B753s in their fleet, but I haven't found the B752 upgrade yet.
Logged
KSYR-pjr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1722



« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 05:05:17 PM »

but they were always referred to as heavy when I was at LAS Tower.

Was this during a tower visit you heard that?  You are not a tower controller, are you?
Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
pilot221
Guest
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 06:16:39 PM »

I work in a tower. Try not to over think it. There are certain B757's that are treated as a heavy but most people treat ALL B757's as heavies. Most don't care which model is or isn't considered a heavy. Apparently, the B757 generates a large amount of wake turbulence compared to other aircraft under the 255,000lb criteria. We provide wake turbulence separation (radar and tower) to everyone operating around them.
Logged
joeyb747
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1583


Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 06:25:54 PM »

For some airplanes, it dependes on if they are loaded or not. I used to work at YIP and somtimes American International (Kallita) would bring a 747 or and L-1011 in empty and the "Heavy" tag would not be after the flight number. Freighters fall into a strange little crack, as they have no seats, interior, lavs, galleys and so on.

Mainly, in passenger service, the L-1011, DC-10(good luck finding one of those grin), MD-11, A330, A340, A380, B777, B767, B747 are titled as "Heavy".
Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
pilot221
Guest
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »

If an aircraft is capable of more than 255,000lbs it should always be designated as heavy, even if it is only weighing 200,000lbs. As a controller, we have no way to know what the actual weight is of the plane on a particular flight and more importantly, we don't care.

Seems like it might have been a rare case and/or the plane is no longer capable of operating at that weight. But again, it's not our jobs to figure that out. Could have been an error too. A lot of what if's though. Call it heavy and move on.
Logged
jmcmanna
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 06:37:44 PM »

I work in a tower. Try not to over think it. There are certain B757's that are treated as a heavy but most people treat ALL B757's as heavies. Most don't care which model is or isn't considered a heavy. Apparently, the B757 generates a large amount of wake turbulence compared to other aircraft under the 255,000lb criteria. We provide wake turbulence separation (radar and tower) to everyone operating around them.

It's not so much that it's being over thought (I certainly wouldn't plan on running a small aircraft that 1 mile closer to a B752 than a heavy just because I could), but it's a very specific question and worth a specific, technical answer.  Besides, you never know when one of those refresher CBIs is going to come out with a pre-test that requires a 100% to get out of the course . . . and the first question is "what is the wake turbulence separation for a small aircraft following a Boeing 757-200?"
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!