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Author Topic: wrong approach  (Read 3211 times)
squid
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« on: May 22, 2007, 09:21:10 PM »

I am not sure if this is right forum area, but earlier this evening (6:20 pm) I believe a flight coming into Winnipeg, was too low and on the wrong approach. Seemed to be a a fairly large passenger aircraft. Any one else see this, or I am dreaming.

I was standing at the Charleswood Centre Mall, when this aircraft flew right over us. I have never seen this before. Also I don't think there are any runways that far west.

The height was about the same. as if you were standing at ness avenue, some
5 km north.

Thanks

John
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Pygmie
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 02:34:50 AM »

The Charleswood Center mall is less then a half-mile from the extended centerline of runway 36, so it's not out of the question for an aircraft on approach to be that far over.  Even more so considering the ILS equipment for runway 36 is out, so aircraft are having to do VOR/DME or NDB approaches, which don't have as high a degree of lateral accuracy as the ILS does. 

Also, the Charleswood mall is only 2NM from the runway threshold, so aircraft at that point can be only 400ft. off the ground, which they will remain at until they get the airport in sight.

The reason that it may have looked so weird is that NDB and VOR/DME approaches are not normally flow onto RWY 36 by larger aircraft, since the ILS is the much prefered approach, but since it is being replaced, it can't be used.
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athaker
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 03:28:07 AM »

way to know your stuff pygmie...phew
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squid
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 09:14:48 AM »

The Charleswood Center mall is less then a half-mile from the extended centerline of runway 36, so it's not out of the question for an aircraft on approach to be that far over.  Even more so considering the ILS equipment for runway 36 is out, so aircraft are having to do VOR/DME or NDB approaches, which don't have as high a degree of lateral accuracy as the ILS does. 

Also, the Charleswood mall is only 2NM from the runway threshold, so aircraft at that point can be only 400ft. off the ground, which they will remain at until they get the airport in sight.

The reason that it may have looked so weird is that NDB and VOR/DME approaches are not normally flow onto RWY 36 by larger aircraft, since the ILS is the much prefered approach, but since it is being replaced, it can't be used.

Pygmie

Thank you.
Can I bother you for a further explanation of your acronyms.

John
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Pygmie
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 05:43:01 PM »

Sure, here goes.  If there are any others, just ask!

ILS ==> Instrument Landing System, consists of a localizer (providing horizontal guidance) and a glide path (providing vertical guidance).  Allows aircraft to follow a very accurate path to the runway, and is the prefered (non-visual) approach used by most major airports.

VOR ==> VHF Omnidirectional Range, a rather large set of radio transmitters on the ground, which (without getting really technical), allow an aircraft to tune in and follow specific radials either to or from the facility.  Typically, there are 360 "radials" with 360 being strait north, 090 being strait east, 270 being strait west, etc.  VORs are most often used for en-route navigation (between airports), but they can also be used to conduct approaches when other approaches are out-of-service, or at smaller airports that don't have the traffic or the weather to justify an expensive dedicated ILS system.

DME ==> Distance Measuring Equipment, a system that uses the time a radio signal takes to get from an aircraft, to the DME site, and back again to calculate the distance the aircraft is from the site, and displaying that information to the pilot.  These are typically installed with VOR sites, and are paired with them, so when a pilot is tuned into the VOR, not only does he get direction information, he also gets distance information as well.  Although they are usually found with VOR sites, they can also be installed separately with NDBs, etc.

NDB ==> Non-directional beacon, basically just a radio antenna that transmits a signal, the same signal in every direction, and equipment on the aircraft just tells the pilot which direction the signal is coming from.  Not as accurate as a VOR, but much less expensive to run.  A lot of major airports have an NDB about 3-5 miles from the end of each runway, and there are tons of small airports that have an NDB located on the field.  Due to the fact that they cost relatively little, require a lot less calibration and testing, and have much longer ranges at low altitude than VOR sites, there are WAY more NDBs then any other type of approach or navigation aid.  On the down side, they are not as accurate as a VOR site.
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ChrisW
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 08:57:30 AM »

Sure, here goes.  If there are any others, just ask!

ILS ==> Instrument Landing System, consists of a localizer (providing horizontal guidance) and a glide path (providing vertical guidance).  Allows aircraft to follow a very accurate path to the runway, and is the prefered (non-visual) approach used by most major airports.

VOR ==> VHF Omnidirectional Range, a rather large set of radio transmitters on the ground, which (without getting really technical), allow an aircraft to tune in and follow specific radials either to or from the facility.  Typically, there are 360 "radials" with 360 being strait north, 090 being strait east, 270 being strait west, etc.  VORs are most often used for en-route navigation (between airports), but they can also be used to conduct approaches when other approaches are out-of-service, or at smaller airports that don't have the traffic or the weather to justify an expensive dedicated ILS system.

DME ==> Distance Measuring Equipment, a system that uses the time a radio signal takes to get from an aircraft, to the DME site, and back again to calculate the distance the aircraft is from the site, and displaying that information to the pilot.  These are typically installed with VOR sites, and are paired with them, so when a pilot is tuned into the VOR, not only does he get direction information, he also gets distance information as well.  Although they are usually found with VOR sites, they can also be installed separately with NDBs, etc.

NDB ==> Non-directional beacon, basically just a radio antenna that transmits a signal, the same signal in every direction, and equipment on the aircraft just tells the pilot which direction the signal is coming from.  Not as accurate as a VOR, but much less expensive to run.  A lot of major airports have an NDB about 3-5 miles from the end of each runway, and there are tons of small airports that have an NDB located on the field.  Due to the fact that they cost relatively little, require a lot less calibration and testing, and have much longer ranges at low altitude than VOR sites, there are WAY more NDBs then any other type of approach or navigation aid.  On the down side, they are not as accurate as a VOR site.

Thanks for the information! Very helpful!
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