Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 04, 2016, 07:45:27 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: Check out: FlightSimCon 2016 June 11-12, 2016


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Listener Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  ZLA - Los Angeles Center
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: ZLA - Los Angeles Center  (Read 13793 times)
fred w
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« on: October 03, 2007, 02:11:35 PM »

Does anyone know when this feed will resume

Thanks !!
Logged
LAPTOP GAMER
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 84


« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 01:39:22 PM »

I keep hoping it will as it would almost complete the LA as all that is needed is LA approach and departure.
Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 02:48:27 PM »

Approach and departure are next on my list.  First, though, I want to clean up KLAX tower as much as possible.  After that, i'll get some more scanners and work towards addl frequencies. 


I can already hear the southern approach and departure perfectly, but stadium sector not too well.
Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964


« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 03:17:33 PM »

IIRC, the guy running the LA Center feed is in Ontario, so for where he's at, he also runs Feeder for SoCal, so if the feed comes back up (I'll see what he's up to; I know the guy personally), you could have a feed from initial call from the Hector and TwentyNine Palms arrival corridor, through Empire, and all the way down to the ground for LAX, and possibly BUR/VNY and SNA/LGB.

BL.

Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2007, 10:07:33 PM »

sweet...maybe he can cover the stuff to the east and the stadium sector (what i can't get down here in hermosa)
Logged
davys747
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 10:38:28 PM »

sweet...maybe he can cover the stuff to the east and the stadium sector (what i can't get down here in hermosa)

He can't get the Stadium controllers, only pilots, IIRC. He can get (East) Feeder on 124.05 and some Center frequencies. I can't remember which ones though.

Bear in mind that -most- of the NE (CIVET5) and E (SEAVU1) arrivals go to the south side so having Downe is preferable over Stadium. Both are really busy so you only need one.

It would be awesome if we could get (East) Feeder, Downe, and South Local. Plus we already have Pacific sector over in the Coast area who does the arrivals via SLI before they go to Downe.
Logged

David Walsh
vZLA
Olivia
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 07:43:58 PM »

athaker - Thanks for all your work on the LAX feed (and to those that helped you out).  I've been listening all afternoon and it sounds great.  I'm hoping with the winds as strong as they are we'll get to hear some westerly ops soon. 
Logged
LAPTOP GAMER
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 84


« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2007, 09:58:26 PM »

Yeah same here , KLAX is my personal favorite!
Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964


« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2007, 03:21:43 AM »

athaker - Thanks for all your work on the LAX feed (and to those that helped you out).  I've been listening all afternoon and it sounds great.  I'm hoping with the winds as strong as they are we'll get to hear some westerly ops soon. 

Westerly ops? That's generally the standard at LAX. If you were meaning East Ops (runways 6 and 7 in use), the winds were too strong out of the west for those. Generally East Ops happens during the Santa Ana winds, which have been fairly quiet this year..

BL.
Logged
davys747
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2007, 08:33:34 AM »

East Ops are VERY rare. It takes a lot of wind to turn the LAX boat. Basically cos its a real BIG pain in the butt for change the config. Most of the controllers don't remember how the airspace works and I they have to go to their SOPs. A lot of the time I think they just make it up. Not only that but LAX going East affects the airspace of not only the Arrivals and Departure sectors, but also Empire and Coast sectors.

To that end, they don't like to go East Ops much.
Logged

David Walsh
vZLA
Olivia
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2007, 02:33:07 PM »

[quote author=tyketto link=topic=3706.msg21152#msg21152
Westerly ops? That's generally the standard at LAX. If you were meaning East Ops (runways 6 and 7 in use), the winds were too strong out of the west for those. Generally East Ops happens during the Santa Ana winds, which have been fairly quiet this year..

BL.

[/quote]
Thanks for the correction guys; I learned something new today.  I thought coming in over the ocean would be westerly ops.  I work about a mile from LAX and whenever they do switch, I always go to Imperial Hill to check things out; it's such a different perspective  than what we're used to seeing every.single.day.  Silly LA and it's great weather.  rolleyes


Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2007, 02:21:14 AM »

I learned something new too olivia...

thanks for the support guys...shucks...i feel cool  smiley

all i know is that "suicide ops" after midnight is pretty cool.  i'll be honest: i dont even get to listen to my own feed a lot cuz im so busy, and growing up in NY im a true jfk fan, but i love tuning in to lax a few minutes before midnight to hear pilots whining about having to come around for the 7's.

it was especially present on the downe approach frequency when i listened on a scanner, and i'll hopefully have that feed up soon.

and santa ana wise: idk about you guys, but its been frickin windy the last coupla days.  the ocean has whitewater patches all over the place and i think i heard gusts to 29knts on final yest morning.  got woken up by a tree hitting my window today

Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964


« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 03:52:03 AM »

I learned something new too olivia...

thanks for the support guys...shucks...i feel cool  smiley

all i know is that "suicide ops" after midnight is pretty cool.  i'll be honest: i dont even get to listen to my own feed a lot cuz im so busy, and growing up in NY im a true jfk fan, but i love tuning in to lax a few minutes before midnight to hear pilots whining about having to come around for the 7's.


Suicide Ops is the norm there as well. Smiley Generally, this is what LAX does. At 9pm local, all LOOP departures headed back northeast over LAX are stopped, per noise abatement procedures. That means that they all join the LAXX and HOLTZ departures going around the Palos Verdes peninsula and east to Seal Beach before turning northeast. Also, all departures north towards Gorman are stopped as well. They get vectored out on runway heading before turning north. Also, for noise abatement.

Then at midnight local, unless winds are greater than 10kts in any direction, suicide ops starts. Land to the east, depart to the west. They'll land on 6L, depart 25L, still following everything they do at 9pm local. If winds are greater than 10kts, they'll land into the wind. It generally takes a wind direction of 020 or further east for them to totally flip the boat, but when they do, honestly, SCT gets out their cheat sheets for East Ops; that's how rare it is.

BL.
Logged
Mark M
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2007, 05:19:15 AM »

Nice work with the feed Athaker, im rarely off the LAX feed when Im home. Was interesting listening, early evening Sydney time, so getting close to midnight at LAX. Two of the Qantas departures in particular caught my attention. I only tuned into the feed as they were taxiing so I missed what happened initially, but basically they were told to back track on the one of the southside runways, then exit at the highspeed before heading to hold short of 7L/R (can't remember which) for departure. It was flights 108(LAX-SYD) and 94 (LAX-MEL), whilst this was happening all other departures were of 25L, and to add to all of this QF94 was delayed for around 15-20mins due to an ill passenger, but eventually departed without having to return to the gate.

Would love to know why it was only the 2xQF flights departed opposite to everybody else, could it have been that they needed the extra length of runway 7L? Korean Air 12 which also left around the same time and was making a Pacific crossing to, departed off 25L.

Mark
Logged
davys747
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2007, 08:34:46 PM »

I have it on good authority that controllers don't like to use the word suicide when referring to midnight ops. That's from a SoCal controller anyway Smiley

Mark M,

As previously mentioned, it takes a lot of constant wind from the East for LAX to switch to East ops. So for example, the wind might be 100 at 6 but they will still be landing West. With the Qantas flights, those winds might produce a large enough tailwind component, that, due to their TOW, makes the aircraft unable to depart the 25's. In this case, they must use 7L ie the opposite of 25R which is the longer of the two south runways. Late at night this isn't too much of an issue in terms of traffic, however if its after midnight its frowned upon for noise abatement. However, operationally there is nothing that can be done. The captain has every right to refuse 25R for operational reasons. I have heard of this happening before but during the day and all the controllers can do is try to find a big enough hole to get them out off 7L.
Logged

David Walsh
vZLA
LAPTOP GAMER
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 84


« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 08:47:01 PM »

"I have it on good authority that controllers don't like to use the word suicide when referring to midnight ops. That's from a SoCal controller anyway" After 911 I could understand that.
Logged
davys747
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2007, 09:08:48 PM »

Its more to do with the fact that 'suicide' sounds like they are intentionally placing lives in danger whereas this goes against everything a controller stands for.
Logged

David Walsh
vZLA
Olivia
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2007, 09:33:04 PM »

BL and David - thanks so much for the additional info about LAX's procedures; it's really appreciated. 
Logged
Mark M
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 12:20:43 AM »

David,

Thanks for the info re those two QF departures, I was sure that they always used 25R/7L for departure due to weight, as I think NZ1 and UA839 do to. But having missed the first part of the conversation with the tower wasn't sure what the situation was there. All of the info about LAX is great, certainly is my favourite feed its tops to hear all the Aussie accents arriving amongst the other traffic.

Mark
Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 02:38:09 AM »

David,

Thanks for the info re those two QF departures, I was sure that they always used 25R/7L for departure due to weight, as I think NZ1 and UA839 do to. But having missed the first part of the conversation with the tower wasn't sure what the situation was there. All of the info about LAX is great, certainly is my favourite feed its tops to hear all the Aussie accents arriving amongst the other traffic.

Mark

Since I'm too lazy to google it and you guys seem to know about these flights departing to the east, around what time do they depart?  I have never in my 10 yrs in the LA area ever seen aircraft departing runways 6 or 7 (L/R)...and I think I'll add a 744 climbing at full power over the 405 freeway to the list of things to see before I die/goto med school.
Logged
tyketto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964


« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 03:05:28 AM »

David,

Thanks for the info re those two QF departures, I was sure that they always used 25R/7L for departure due to weight, as I think NZ1 and UA839 do to. But having missed the first part of the conversation with the tower wasn't sure what the situation was there. All of the info about LAX is great, certainly is my favourite feed its tops to hear all the Aussie accents arriving amongst the other traffic.

Mark

Since I'm too lazy to google it and you guys seem to know about these flights departing to the east, around what time do they depart?  I have never in my 10 yrs in the LA area ever seen aircraft departing runways 6 or 7 (L/R)...and I think I'll add a 744 climbing at full power over the 405 freeway to the list of things to see before I die/goto med school.

I can't remember exactly the times, but I do know that Qantas has a window that they must meet for oceanic operations down to Sydney and Melbourne. They make it to LAX early in the morning, but their jets sit there all day and head out late at night. That also squares with the UAL flight I had to Melbourne from LAX via AKL. We left at about 10:45pm local time. ANZ had a flight at that same time going to the same place, so it's definitely late evening that the Australia/New Zealand bound flights depart.

As for the term 'suicide ops', it came about unofficially from how fighter jets would depart an air craft carrier at night. They'd go out one way into the night, and come back in the opposite way. During war time (read: World War II), this was pretty much the norm.

BL.
Logged
Mark M
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 04:05:42 AM »

David,

Thanks for the info re those two QF departures, I was sure that they always used 25R/7L for departure due to weight, as I think NZ1 and UA839 do to. But having missed the first part of the conversation with the tower wasn't sure what the situation was there. All of the info about LAX is great, certainly is my favourite feed its tops to hear all the Aussie accents arriving amongst the other traffic.

Mark

Since I'm too lazy to google it and you guys seem to know about these flights departing to the east, around what time do they depart?  I have never in my 10 yrs in the LA area ever seen aircraft departing runways 6 or 7 (L/R)...and I think I'll add a 744 climbing at full power over the 405 freeway to the list of things to see before I die/goto med school.

Its actually the first time I've heard them leave, 7L, especially while everybody else is going off 25L and granted living in Sydney its only thanks to your feed that I was able to hear it ! I have flown out of LAX on NZ1, UA839 and QF108, all 25R departures. I do remember that when I arrived at LAX on the JFK-LAX sector of QF108, about 11PM PST, they QF crew were desperate to depart before midnight and managed from memory about a 45-50 minute turnaround, it was quite some effort. I know they do reverse ops during Santa Ana winds, but that didn't sound like it was the case last night.

The two late flights for QF, are 94 (LAX-MEL), 108 (LAX-SYD)
From qantas.com, LAX departures that left tonight (Sun) LAX time,

QF94 Sched. 23.40 Departed 00.23 (Not sure which runway, as I didn't hear it today)
QF108 Sched. 23.50 Departed 00.21 (Definately 25R tonight)
QF26 Sched. 21.05 Departed 21.40 (25R)
QF12 Sched. 22.30 Departed 22.37 (25R)
QF176 Sched. 23.20 Departed 23.50 (25R)

It must have been as explained by David, a wind issue for the 7L departures, it may be late but I would say that any other South Pacific departures off 7L would be a sight over the 405 freeway. They are long slow climbs when they depart Sydney, so a 14 hour return trip would be no different.

Mark
Logged
Olivia
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2007, 10:22:56 PM »

Easterly ops for LAX tonight!  I walked out of work just in time to catch a UA 777 heading out over the city...too cool!

Thanks for getting the feed back up and running athaker.  grin
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:40:58 PM by Olivia » Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!